Development Update September 2015

Not as long as they don't have control over the way ED write their software. With the best will in the world, some aspects of ED are totally beyond their control.

I am afraid your disappointment is not anything VEAO have a choice about right now.

Not as long as they don't have control over the way ED write their software. With the best will in the world, some aspects of ED are totally beyond their control.

 

I am afraid your disappointment is not anything VEAO have a choice about right now.

You are right. But that doesn't mean that one can't be disappointed, even though the reason is apparently beyond VEAO's control.

In hindsight you can wonder if VEAO could have, or should have talked to ED before deciding on a way to code the ASM. Don't know if ED would have given them a clue about what direction to start working to be futureproof with regards to dual-seat ops.

I'll write off my purchase of the the Hawk as a learning experience, and I'll be looking forward to flying the L39.

I can understand your disappointment, definitely. We also wanted a British trainer with 2 crewmen aboard for our training program on RAF Air. Using the L-39 just won't be the same. I guess we'll just have to convince VEAO that a newer version of the Hawk - a T2 ideally, with the necessary provision for multi crew would be a good project to shoehorn into their very large list.

how about they simply statt to recode ASM?

Well, "simply" re-coding the whole ASM is easily said but not easily done. It is a lot of work and that means time and money. And since time also means money it means a lot of money.

Yes it's very sad that it looks like ED was coding the twin seat functionality without any communication to the 3. party developers :(

Agree with Sith there. Don't start putting blame anywhere.

They way ED have coded it makes complete sense with the way they will do multi-player cockpits (from what I've seen).

It's that our code was obviously not structured that way as it was written over the past 4 years.

Also to be clear we never promised dual seat capability in any product page or forum post.

I have always maintained we had to wait until ED coded DCS until we could evaluate what they've done and if it was feasible.

Check our product page from which you bought from and tell me where it says dual seat control?

No one is more disappointed than me I can tell you that.

Agree with Sith there. Don't start putting blame anywhere.

They way ED have coded it makes complete sense with the way they will do multi-player cockpits (from what I've seen).

It's that our code was obviously not structured that way as it was written over the past 4 years.

It's all on the first page.

They won't integrate rear-cockpit functionality in THIS version of the Hawk.

Tey are looking into, maybe, getting the Hawk to be flyable from the rear cockpit.

Honestly, I'm not overly bothered, I'll never use co-op functionality anyway, I'll just be happy to be able to fly from the rear seat... So get too it ;)

Just to answer something that has been brought to my attention, Neither Chris nor I post on forums outside of ED or facebook so I will post a clarification here.

It has been speculated that we need to re-write the ASM for the FM. This is not the case. The ASM would only need to be substantially re-written in the event that we wanted to implement twin seat capability, ie jumping from front pit to back seat and two player capacity.

The Hawk code was written over the past 4 years, long before ED developed the facility to have twin sticks and all along we have said we would look at it and if it was viable we would look to implement this dependent on ED's choice of method. Sadly for us it is not viable as it would mean effectively starting our ASM code again.

As/when we do aircraft in the future where twin stick is a possibility we will obviously account for the new structure from the start.

Pman

(...) in the event that we wanted to implement twin seat capability, ie jumping from front pit to back seat and two player capacity.

Do I understand this correctly, even for single player there will be no switching between front and rear cockpit? I.e. basically no rear cockpit at all?

That would be ... a surprise for me then.

Do I understand this correctly, even for single player there will be no switching between front and rear cockpit? I.e. basically no rear cockpit at all?

 

That would be ... a surprise for me then.

We are investigating the possibly of a camera swap, so you can appear to fly from the rear cockpit, how this interfaces with the clickable data is the issue more than anything. For example you would be able to click on the switches in the front cockpit while in the rear of the aircraft.

This isnt confirmed as something we will do, just something we are investigating.

For the time being (unless Chris knows something I don't) I think thats all we can say is potentially possible

Pman

I think for single player, the ability to fly from the back seat is more of a novelty than anything else, anyways.

I think for single player, the ability to fly from the back seat is more of a novelty than anything else, anyways.

It is, but it would still be a very nice feature. The view out of the Hawk is very nice from the rear seat. I really hope you guys find a way to implement this.

It is, but it would still be a very nice feature. The view out of the Hawk is very nice from the rear seat.

At this point, I would certainly question the value of the time spent implementing something just because the view is 'very nice'. It just seems like there are far more pressing matters facing the team.

I agree.

A backseat to switch to without another player is pointless IMO.

Either backseat usable in MP or just omit it and move on to more important stuff. :)

Chris, I read your post with great interest, and I have only one thing to say:

At this point, I would certainly question the value of the time spent implementing something just because the view is 'very nice'. It just seems like there are far more pressing matters facing the team.

It's a DCS module which means it should be the best virtual Hawk we've ever had. It already is tbh but that doesn't mean things can't be improved (aside from the obvious bugs/efm etc) It's a trainer aircraft with two seats so I'm sure most DCS customers would expect both seats to be usable, I'm not sure it would be considered a waste of effort to model the rear seat. How many people would really use co-op? some for sure, but I imagine more would just fly solo in the rear seat as they will with the L-39 (well I will)

Pressing issues should of course get priority, I'm not suggesting otherwise. Nor am I expecting a rear seat tomorrow, or even this year. But eventually it would be very nice to have is all.

I'm still investigating the rear seat view option.

I have a crazy week coming up with finishing my day job on Wednesday to work on VEAO full time.

Then I fly out to Spain on Friday for just under a week.

When I'm back I will have time to look into it.

Right now it's making sure all is right with Hawk for DCS 1.5 release.

Despite what some people think, and have posted in other forums, the source code we have will not simply work implementing the solution ED gave us for proper rear seat integration.

How about leave it to the people that have the code to judge whether it can be done or not and leave all the speculation out.

As Pete has said if we were starting Hawk now, knowing the ED solution, it would be a different ball game.

Thanks,

Chris.

Enjoy the holiday, and congratulations on working for yourself full time in a cool job!

I wish you all the best for your full-time VEAO job, and a nice holiday! :)

Thanks guys.

As I said priority is DCS 1.5 release.

Once that's out I can focus on the other bugs and coding issues full time.

Thanks,

C.