Space Combat Grip "Kosmosima"

Yes, with SCG release no reason for produce more MCG non PRO.

The SCG is a really nice stick. I am glad I got the basic model instead of the premium or else I wouldn't have the will to cut it up for my purposes. While it is essentially a scaled down MCG, its size/shape/layout reminds me of US stick grips like the F-15 and F-18... and the twist grip is a great option for people with no rudder pedals or those who play battle mech games that need a torso axis. If VKB could get their products to market a little faster and keep them in stock, they would dominate in the mid range to high end stick market.

One aspect that I don't like is that you have to flash the base when you want to change grips. The firmware isn't looking for a generic interface... it is looking for a particular grip. That is not practical to me. If I am going to make a dedicated B-8 stick rather than a generic one with readily swapped grips, I have a better option. I am now going to study my extra Warthog stick and see how well it will work. I may use my original real B-8/stick setup with steel springs and adapt the Warthog sensors to work with the real stick's roll and pitch movements. Such an approach won't require using the Warthog's centering mechanism or gimbal, completely eliminating its faults. I can then wire the B-8 hat and buttons to the Warthog stick's PCB, which can be mounted in a box rather than in the original grip.

The alternative is that I need to get another MCG Pro grip to use for my spare B-8 grip. They are rarely in stock and cost a lot. Whereas I have two unused Warthog's gathering dust. The low price and availability of the SCG convinced me to order it, but rational thinking leads me to conclude that I should have focused on adapting my older Warthog stick.

Before you start dismantle all, remember that Debolestis, Rel4y sell Warthog compatible Shift Register PCB's . ;)

And that Warthog gimbal don't use individual sensor for X and Y axis, but an unique triaxis "3D" sensor programmed for read both axes simultaneous.

You should make another thread. This thread is about Kosmosima grip.

Off-Topic Warning

You should make another thread. This thread is about Kosmosima grip.

Gentlemen please stay within the topic.

I hate to say we might be pushed to purging the thread of irrelevant posts.

Thanks @Seb71 I should have done this myself.

I had several posts. All but two involved the Kosmosima grip. I have deleted the two posts with no reference to the thread topic. But what I learned by buying the Kosmosima is that buying grips with the intention of easily swapping them for different applications is not practical. I have the MCG Pro. I was expecting plug-n-play: I figured I could loosen the screw, slap on the Kosmosima and be back in business.

Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I had to flash the firmware to use the Kosmosima (an expected action). But then I had to flash the firmware again to switch back to the MCG Pro. I had presumed there would be a single firmware release that would automatically detect which product was in use when reset or powered up or have a single profile that works equally well with either product with unused options being displayed but not functional. Flashing firmware is always risky and in this case also requires a fresh calibration after each flash.

Based on my experience, I would recommend that customers who intend to frequently use more than one type of grip buy a complete grip/base set to avoid having to repeatedly flash firmware and calibrate axes. With the lesson I learned, the most practical purposes for buying stand alone grips is spare/replacement parts or upgrading from a lesser grip to a more capable one.

I only chose the basic Kosmosima because I needed only minimum button and axis support, but it is still a great grip. The premium Kosmosima is a great alternative to the MCG pro if you don't want/need the analog brake lever and/or find a twist grip more useful. Both Kosmosima grips had a huge advantage over the MCG Pro: they were in stock.

I had several posts. All but two involved the Kosmosima grip. I have deleted the two posts with no reference to the thread topic. But what I learned by buying the Kosmosima is that buying grips with the intention of easily swapping them for different applications is not practical. I have the MCG Pro. I was expecting plug-n-play: I figured I could loosen the screw, slap on the Kosmosima and be back in business.

 

Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I had to flash the firmware to use the Kosmosima (an expected action). But then I had to flash the firmware again to switch back to the MCG Pro. I had presumed there would be a single firmware release that would automatically detect which product was in use when reset or powered up or have a single profile that works equally well with either product with unused options being displayed but not functional. Flashing firmware is always risky and in this case also requires a fresh calibration after each flash.

 

Interesting. It took me exactly 37 seconds to flash and calibrate my Kosmosima...it takes me longer to unscrew my MCG Pro, line up the insert, seat, and tighten my Kosmosima than it does to flash and calibrate the stick. To each his own, I guess.

1) It isn't the time to flash. I don't know how often I would be switching grips. Maybe once a week, maybe several times a day. Flash your stick twice a day every day for a year. Does the flash go well 100% of the time? When it doesn't go well, is it easy to recover (i.e. simply flash again)? Flashing chips, even with modern day reliability is always a risk. I have flashed a lot of firmware for a lot of devices at work. I do so as few times as possible because I have seen the consequences of bad flash attempts up to and including bricked hardware that cost thousands of dollars to replace.

2) Combine the time to mechanically change out the stick with the time to start the software, flash the stick, and calibrate. Compare that to the time to unplug one USB controller and plug in a different controller.

3) I am also very careful when I calibrate: I want full 0-65353 range over full motion range with a perfect center. It doesn't do that if you just slap the stick around and hit ok. I observe and verify each axis before and after calibration (which is considerably easier with the Kosmosima, but is a lot more involved with the MCG Pro).

For my purposes, it is far easier with zero risk to the flash memory to swap warthog stick grips: turn threaded knob, swap grips, turn threaded knob... PC doesn't even know there was a swap. All of my DCS World stick maps will work with either one since I am mapping exactly the same buttons/hats/triggers for the particular aircraft involved with the alternate grip. I expected the VKB grips to me this easy aside from the aforementioned difficulty with the locking screw, which takes me less time than flashing since I back it all the way out and simply insert it after the stick is already in place.

The VKB stick is a fantastic product and better than the Warthog in almost every way. But not in requiring flashing firmware and calibrating every time you swap grips. I understand the calibration because of the random differences between the analog axes in each grip, but it is still an extra step that I rarely take with any other USB stick after the first time it has been connected. Fortunately, I only use the default VKB configuration, so I don't have the extra hassle of remembering to make sure any customization has been saved before removing a grip and reloaded after restoring a grip. I customize all of my controls via DCS lua scripts, which works for all of my sticks. So, I never run Target for the Warthog or the VKB software unless I need to flash firmware. The VKB hasn't yet needed calibration once it has been flashed/calibrated, either. So the only time I even see the software is when a new firmware is released, or now that I bought a new stick.

At the risk of getting slightly off topic for the Kosmosima specifically, it might be worth seeing if VKB sells (or plans to sell) black boxes as a separate part. I have a spare black box that came with my T-Rudder, so my plan is to flash one for my MCG Pro, and one for my Kosmosima.

I seem to remember the store having the black box for sale in the past, but I could be mistaken.

1) It isn't the time to flash. I don't know how often I would be switching grips. Maybe once a week, maybe several times a day. Flash your stick twice a day every day for a year. Does the flash go well 100% of the time? When it doesn't go well, is it easy to recover (i.e. simply flash again)? Flashing chips, even with modern day reliability is always a risk. I have flashed a lot of firmware for a lot of devices at work. I do so as few times as possible because I have seen the consequences of bad flash attempts up to and including bricked hardware that cost thousands of dollars to replace.

 

2) Combine the time to mechanically change out the stick with the time to start the software, flash the stick, and calibrate. Compare that to the time to unplug one USB controller and plug in a different controller.

 

3) I am also very careful when I calibrate: I want full 0-65353 range over full motion range with a perfect center. It doesn't do that if you just slap the stick around and hit ok. I observe and verify each axis before and after calibration (which is considerably easier with the Kosmosima, but is a lot more involved with the MCG Pro).

 

For my purposes, it is far easier with zero risk to the flash memory to swap warthog stick grips: turn threaded knob, swap grips, turn threaded knob... PC doesn't even know there was a swap. All of my DCS World stick maps will work with either one since I am mapping exactly the same buttons/hats/triggers for the particular aircraft involved with the alternate grip. I expected the VKB grips to me this easy aside from the aforementioned difficulty with the locking screw, which takes me less time than flashing since I back it all the way out and simply insert it after the stick is already in place.

 

The VKB stick is a fantastic product and better than the Warthog in almost every way. But not in requiring flashing firmware and calibrating every time you swap grips. I understand the calibration because of the random differences between the analog axes in each grip, but it is still an extra step that I rarely take with any other USB stick after the first time it has been connected. Fortunately, I only use the default VKB configuration, so I don't have the extra hassle of remembering to make sure any customization has been saved before removing a grip and reloaded after restoring a grip. I customize all of my controls via DCS lua scripts, which works for all of my sticks. So, I never run Target for the Warthog or the VKB software unless I need to flash firmware. The VKB hasn't yet needed calibration once it has been flashed/calibrated, either. So the only time I even see the software is when a new firmware is released, or now that I bought a new stick.

Here it goes, was easier to write it this way

1)..... Does the flash go well 100% of the time?

Pretty much yes. The chip's lifetime is guaranteed to 10,000 reflash cycles. Our staff testers reflash their devices a few times every day, day after day, month after month. Still nowhere near the limit.

When it doesn't go well, is it easy to recover (i.e. simply flash again)?

Yes it is, and even if it looks dead (you need to try real hard to achieve this goal) there is a jumper and a bootloading procedure that resurrects the dead better than Stephen King together with Wes Craven.

I have seen the consequences of bad flash attempts

Don't feed 220V to them, you'll be good.

 

2) Combine the time to mechanically change out the stick with the time to start the software, flash the stick, and calibrate. Compare that to the time to unplug one USB controller and plug in a different controller.

If you're a miner, it takes time to shower and change your costume before you're ready to go to a ball at the Ritz. Takes longer than if you are a lawyer. Not meant to put one occupation above another, just to give an example.

 

3) For my purposes, it is far easier with zero risk to the flash memory to swap warthog stick grips: turn threaded knob, swap grips, turn threaded knob... PC doesn't even know there was a swap.

WH grip is basically a handful of buttons in a nice shell. That's why they're all the same for the computer.

Modern grips however are a bunch of buttons, a bundle of axes, and a pinch of LEDs. Each of which are individually set and recorded in profiles.

Gone days'cars could be started with a crank (same crank would start any car); now you need sophisticated keys that don't even look like keys any longer.

 

I expected the VKB grips to me this easy aside from the aforementioned difficulty with the locking screw, which takes me less time than flashing since I back it all the way out and simply insert it after the stick is already in place.

Nope it is not possible. And is not going to be.

USB standard requires identification of each device plugged in a USB socket. Windows sees every device as a different one. So does DCS.

Resetting the device is a must, sorry it is a fact of life.

 

There is a trick however: you may use different BlackBoxes with different grips. In this case you can skip reflashing altogether. We haven't considered selling BlackBoxes separately till now, but well this may be an option. Just get yourself as many BlackBoxes as you have grips, and voila.

Good idea

At the risk of getting slightly off topic for the Kosmosima specifically, it might be worth seeing if VKB sells (or plans to sell) black boxes as a separate part. I have a spare black box that came with my T-Rudder, so my plan is to flash one for my MCG Pro, and one for my Kosmosima.

No ;) this is not offtopic, come on we're not policing it that strict!

The idea is good, and we discussed it in brief a few mins ago in the office.

There is nothing to prevent us from doing so.

We will produce a bit more BlackBoxes within a month, and they will be available through our dealerships and Aliexpress; in the meantime if anyone needs an extra BB - email us, we will help.

BB is not in short supply, we can always sell one or two to those in need!

What's the best email to use?

The black box that came with my Gunfighter Pro was faulty when I received it. I have support ticket which is almost two months old but hasn't seen any reply. I was warned by rrohde that the engineers can take a very long time to reply to such things.

I would love to get this sorted before moving (to a different continent) this summer after which matters of support might become more complicated.

Cheers

I have support ticket which is almost two months old but hasn't seen any reply. I was warned by rrohde that the engineers can take a very long time to reply to such things.

PM me with full case story, incl ticket number and date, all your correspondence with rrohde, etc.

Great, thank you. PM sent.

To clarify, I believe rrohde was suggesting that the engineering lads were, at the time, neck deep in getting the next batch of Gunfighters ready to ship while simultaneously finishing up the Kosmosima. This was the reason to expect a bit of a wait.

Also I have been using the older model Black Box which came with my pedals and seems to work with the Gunfighter + MCG P (just the lights don't behave as they should according to the manual). So it's not like haven't been able to use my Gunfighter this whole time.

No ;) this is not offtopic, come on we're not policing it that strict!

The idea is good, and we discussed it in brief a few mins ago in the office.

There is nothing to prevent us from doing so.

We will produce a bit more BlackBoxes within a month, and they will be available through our dealerships and Aliexpress; in the meantime if anyone needs an extra BB - email us, we will help.

BB is not in short supply, we can always sell one or two to those in need!

What is the approximate price for a standalone blackbox?

If it's not possible for a hypothetical future blackbox revision to automatically detect the grip and select a profile accordingly, then perhaps it could be setup with two or more sets of flash memory/firmware "slots", with a switch to toggle which one is to be read upon reboot.

What is the approximate price for a standalone blackbox?

If it's not possible for a hypothetical future blackbox revision to automatically detect the grip and select a profile accordingly, then perhaps it could be setup with two or more sets of flash memory/firmware "slots", with a switch to toggle which one is to be read upon reboot.

Price, not sure - I'm not in the sales field; writing to the sales team would be a better way to get first-hand information.

Regarding the second issue, let me be direct: getting into developing such product will take a lot of time and manpower, and will probably generate next to zero return. In a word, it is not on our slate, and will not be for foreseeable future.

Price, not sure - I'm not in the sales field; writing to the sales team would be a better way to get first-hand information.

Regarding the second issue, let me be direct: getting into developing such product will take a lot of time and manpower, and will probably generate next to zero return. In a word, it is not on our slate, and will not be for foreseeable future.

Okay, thanks. That would be Eduard at VKB Europe then?

Okay, thanks. That would be Eduard at VKB Europe then?

Yes our EU dealer's name is Eduard.

There is Kosmosima (grip only) in stock via the VKB aliexpress store. I just ordered one :)

SCG (LH) grip

Gday

I recently came across and purchased a LH SCG premium grip off VKB aliexpress store, it will make a perfect helicopter collective grip for my ka50 flying

I intend to fabricate a collective to attach it to, I have only taken the side panels off to inspect it and begin my investigations into the internals.

If possible I would rather not mess with the internals and simply capitalise on the existing 3 pin plug, however I need to be able to work out the connectivity to do so.

Im looking to attach it to a small pro-micro board (arduino mini clone) potentially with MMjoy to keep it simple for me, (otherwise Im going to have to learn to code in arduino as well)

Im just hoping someone might be able to give me a heads up with either a wiring schematic or at least a list of chips in the grip, so that I can take that along to my good friend who is much better with electronics than I am (though thats not hard) and has been helping me with some more delicate soldering tasks.

thanks in advance

:pilotfly:

Gday

I recently came across and purchased a LH SCG premium grip off VKB aliexpress store, it will make a perfect helicopter collective grip for my ka50 flying

 

I intend to fabricate a collective to attach it to, I have only taken the side panels off to inspect it and begin my investigations into the internals.

 

If possible I would rather not mess with the internals and simply capitalise on the existing 3 pin plug, however I need to be able to work out the connectivity to do so.

 

Im looking to attach it to a small pro-micro board (arduino mini clone) potentially with MMjoy to keep it simple for me, (otherwise Im going to have to learn to code in arduino as well)

 

Im just hoping someone might be able to give me a heads up with either a wiring schematic or at least a list of chips in the grip, so that I can take that along to my good friend who is much better with electronics than I am (though thats not hard) and has been helping me with some more delicate soldering tasks.

 

thanks in advance

 

:pilotfly:

As far as I have been told the communication protocol for the 3-pin bus is a VKB trade secret. Your best bet is likely to purchase a black box and stick extension from VKB and bodge them together into a custom cable.

Yup, pulled it apart and found the STM micro processor on the boards and there's only the 3 pin cable coming back to the base. I'm not going to be able to do what I planned and the simplest solution would be to buy a gladiator mk2 for a compatible base and manufacture some mechanical guides to eliminate one of the axis & add some sort of friction lock.....

bugger

As an option - buy a gunfighter, remove the spring and cam (so as not to dangle) from the Y axis and tighten the damper to the desired effort. Instead of a spring, you can put a plate with two holes on the X-axis to block completely moving along X. Place the base on the left - РОШ ready.

Soon™ new option of extension for SCG - straight and with less height, for "space flight". ;)