Can we get some life into these warbirds? ( Engine management)

All the aircraft in dcs are missing a very important part of operating an aircraft. Engine management is so important, older jets you get compressor stalls etc but not modeled here.

 

The prop aircraft are pretty lifeless, they start up the same each time, there could be some variety and dynamics to the engine. Mag checks are usually important and if you sit at idle you will feel the plugs or the engine will cut out, this is all stuff that could make the sim so much better!

you have no idea how i want to see this in dcs :)

spark plugs fouling

for example in p-51 it is adviced to take off at high MP 50 or more to actualy clear spark plug after taxing, or after landing keep rpm around 1000rpm to maintan cooling and prevent excesive sparkplugs fouling etc that would be sweet

but some of things are in game like mags check supercharger check fuel pump check all this work and prop gavernor check all you need to do you have to enable random failers for this modules so pilots have to check it before t/o, set random module failer to something like 30s after spawn and thats it dead mags dead gavernor coming in and you can pick them up by doing pre take off check list

Edited July 8, 2019 by grafspee

+1

 

VEAO did actually model these kind of things for their P-40F. You can still read up on some of this here: https://www.mudspike.com/qa-with-veao-p-40f-preview/

There has also been another preview article, which I can't find anymore, where they explained how the startup procedure is slightly different every time because of the nature of such machines which they modeled very deeply.

It's a shame that no one else does that, but maybe its just not worth the effort and you risk going bancrupt if you get lost in modeling such details. ;)

 

 

All the aircraft in dcs are missing a very important part of operating an aircraft. Engine management is so important, older jets you get compressor stalls etc but not modeled here.

The Viggen does model compressor stalls and they feel and sound really nasty.

+1

 

VEAO did actually model these kind of things for their P-40F. You can still read up on some of this here: https://www.mudspike.com/qa-with-veao-p-40f-preview/

There has also been another preview article, which I can't find anymore, where they explained how the startup procedure is slightly different every time because of the nature of such machines which they modeled very deeply.

It's a shame that no one else does that, but maybe its just not worth the effort and you risk going bancrupt if you get lost in modeling such details. ;)

 

 

 

The Viggen does model compressor stalls and they feel and sound really nasty.

 

Ah yes the p40 *shudders*

 

These are things that should be standard with high fidelity aircraft

 

We need engine over prime, backfire effects in the p-51.

 

 

Oh yeah there are a few exceptions to this, the c101 has engine issues for over running for example.

I would like to see some vibrations in the cockpit to get the feel the plane is alive, right now it looks like a static picture. I used camera jiggle but with TrackIR it's not possible to use it any more. Anyway, i'm looking for a low amplitude high frequency vibration, camera jiggle was something else.

It's nice to see the P51 Mustang instrument panel shaking when rolling on the ground, but i would like to see this effect added to more parts in the cockpit for all planes. Maybe the small vibrations can be added to other elements outside the cockpit, like the engine cowlings. I remember i could see those vibrating when flying in a real plane.

I would like to see some vibrations in the cockpit to get the feel the plane is alive, right now it looks like a static picture. I used camera jiggle but with TrackIR it's not possible to use it any more. Anyway, i'm looking for a low amplitude high frequency vibration, camera jiggle was something else.

It's nice to see the P51 Mustang instrument panel shaking when rolling on the ground, but i would like to see this effect added to more parts in the cockpit for all planes. Maybe the small vibrations can be added to other elements outside the cockpit, like the engine cowlings. I remember i could see those vibrating when flying in a real plane.

 

its not easy to show high freq vibrations becouse it could create extream blury immage on some screens lets stay with sim level things like fouling sparkplugs etc which can impact how you play this sim.

from visual effects i would like to have prop tip vapor during take off at high humidity.

but rest things i would like to have modeled "under the hood"

Edited July 8, 2019 by grafspee

its not easy to show high freq vibrations becouse it could create extream blury immage on some screens lets stay with sim level things like fouling sparkplugs etc which can impact how you play this sim.

from visual effects i would like to have prop tip vapor during take off at high humidity.

but rest things i would like to have modeled "under the hood"

 

+1

I would like to see some vibrations in the cockpit to get the feel the plane is alive, right now it looks like a static picture. I used camera jiggle but with TrackIR it's not possible to use it any more. Anyway, i'm looking for a low amplitude high frequency vibration, camera jiggle was something else.

It's nice to see the P51 Mustang instrument panel shaking when rolling on the ground, but i would like to see this effect added to more parts in the cockpit for all planes. Maybe the small vibrations can be added to other elements outside the cockpit, like the engine cowlings. I remember i could see those vibrating when flying in a real plane.

The problem with that is the cockpit panel shake effect is just a placebo for you to think of the vibrations. IRL you don't "see" any vibration nor your eyes vibrate like that, you feel the seat of your pants and that's all. YT videos are deceiving, the camera mount shakes with engine, but the pilot doesn't see that at all. You'll be better seeking for a vibration cushion in the gametrix style if you want to feel that rather than asking for a "Hollywood camera shake effect" affecting other things like instruments readability, not to mention many people wouldn't like it.

 

 

S!

The problem with that is the cockpit panel shake effect is just a placebo for you to think of the vibrations. IRL you don't "see" any vibration nor your eyes vibrate like that, you feel the seat of your pants and that's all. YT videos are deceiving, the camera mount shakes with engine, but the pilot doesn't see that at all. You'll be better seeking for a vibration cushion in the gametrix style if you want to feel that rather than asking for a "Hollywood camera shake effect" affecting other things like instruments readability, not to mention many people wouldn't like it.

 

 

S!

 

For me something scalable like Mig21 module has would be great. If you don't like it you can just disable it.

 

Back in the days when i was flying gliders i had many flights as a passenger in a Wilga PZL104. When taking off from a grass runway, everything shakes so violently that it's a miracle it stays in one piece.

Once you are up in the air you still see small vibrations everywhere: engine cowl, instrument panel, plexiglass panels, etc. and of course you can feel it in your whole body. Not to mention the turbulences which also make you move around a bit. It's really very different to the "camera on a stick" effect we have now.

 

For me spark plug fouling is just a sound, would be cool but i need more visual cues to feel the plane is alive.

For me something scalable like Mig21 module has would be great. If you don't like it you can just disable it.

 

Back in the days when i was flying gliders i had many flights as a passenger in a Wilga PZL104. When taking off from a grass runway, everything shakes so violently that it's a miracle it stays in one piece.

Once you are up in the air you still see small vibrations everywhere: engine cowl, instrument panel, plexiglass panels, etc. and of course you can feel it in your whole body. Not to mention the turbulences which also make you move around a bit. It's really very different to the "camera on a stick" effect we have now.

 

For me spark plug fouling is just a sound, would be cool but i need more visual cues to feel the plane is alive.

 

All the things I've flown in I've never had panels visibly vibrating. Think you are confusing it with your head been thrown around.

 

Spark plug fowling is more that just a sound, it is a very important part of engine management. Not just a sound at all.

For me something scalable like Mig21 module has would be great. If you don't like it you can just disable it.

That could work, yeah.

 

Back in the days when i was flying gliders i had many flights as a passenger in a Wilga PZL104. When taking off from a grass runway, everything shakes so violently that it's a miracle it stays in one piece.

But your eyes doesn't vibrate like the camera, you see perfectly fine just feeling the shake in the seat of your pants. That could be simulated with a gametrix cushion, not with camera shake.

 

 

S!

That could work, yeah.

 

But your eyes doesn't vibrate like the camera, you see perfectly fine just feeling the shake in the seat of your pants. That could be simulated with a gametrix cushion, not with camera shake.

 

 

S!

 

i think its not 100% true becouse one of saturn V pilot said that during lift off vibration was so immense that he could not read any instrument and he took his hand off mission aboart switch to not hit it by mistake

question is can we compare 5 f-1 engines at full thrust to p-51's engine

i think its not 100% true becouse one of saturn V pilot said that during lift off vibration was so immense that he could not read any instrument and he took his hand off mission aboart switch to not hit it by mistake

question is can we compare 5 f-1 engines at full thrust to p-51's engine

 

Like he said that is shaking in your seat. It isn't related to what I wanted this thread to be about

i think its not 100% true becouse one of saturn V pilot said that during lift off vibration was so immense that he could not read any instrument and he took his hand off mission aboart switch to not hit it by mistake

question is can we compare 5 f-1 engines at full thrust to p-51's engine

Yeah, because we are in a Saturn V… :doh: I mean regular aircraft, not being in the middle of a hurricane or lifting off a space rocket.

 

 

S!

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=192633

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=227170

That could work, yeah.

 

But your eyes doesn't vibrate like the camera, you see perfectly fine just feeling the shake in the seat of your pants. That could be simulated with a gametrix cushion, not with camera shake.

 

 

S!

 

And not everyone can afford a fancy moving seat cushion, so visual affects are the best compromise.

scratch that vibrations i will stay with more in depth simulation like carb icing, cannopy fogging/icing/spark plag fouling and many other missing stuff like guns icing etc etc...

scratch that vibrations i will stay with more in depth simulation like carb icing, cannopy fogging/icing/spark plag fouling and many other missing stuff like guns icing etc etc...

Carb icing does happen mate. And I think I've seen some fogging at high altitude? Don't know really.

 

 

S!

Carb icing does happen mate. And I think I've seen some fogging at high altitude? Don't know really.

 

 

S!

 

in p-51 never happen to me same as cannopy fogging in p-51

right now in spitfire we dont have filter in operation operational yet only ram air avilable, so there is plenty stuff much more important than some vibrations

All the things I've flown in I've never had panels visibly vibrating. Think you are confusing it with your head been thrown around.

 

Flown a lot of 1500HP V-12 pistons, yeah?

 

Guess the Spitfire and P-51 designers had the primary flight instruments shock mounted on a separate floating panel just to use up some spare rubber and put extra weight in the plane...?!?!

 

:doh:

Flown a lot of 1500HP V-12 pistons, yeah?

 

Guess the Spitfire and P-51 designers had the primary flight instruments shock mounted on a separate floating panel just to use up some spare rubber and put extra weight in the plane...?!?!

 

:doh:

 

 

And they do vibrate in game. He is talking about panels vibrating. But again that is nothing to do with the improvements me and everyone else is requesting so create another thread if you care so much.

Flown a lot of 1500HP V-12 pistons, yeah?

 

Guess the Spitfire and P-51 designers had the primary flight instruments shock mounted on a separate floating panel just to use up some spare rubber and put extra weight in the plane...?!?!

 

:doh:

 

this was done not becouse pilot was unable to read those gages of vibrations.

it was done to protect fragile components of flight instruments like art horizon turn indicator course gage those could be damaged from high freq vibrations coming from airframe but rest of gages are mounted solid still pilot have nor porblems reading them.

maby you will be shocked but engines with big numbers of cylinders generate less energy vibratons then those with small numbers. absolute kings of low vabrations are radial engines, v12 loosing this fight but not terible

the biggest threat to airplane and its components is mechanical resonans that is why in some planes certain rpm range is absolutely forbiden to use, when at some rpm lots of think start to shake strong this is not good rpm to be in

just immagine v-1650 in V2 setup :P i can see those ridicolous vibrations alredy

Edited July 9, 2019 by grafspee

in p-51 never happen to me same as cannopy fogging in p-51

right now in spitfire we dont have filter in operation operational yet only ram air avilable, so there is plenty stuff much more important than some vibrations

Get into clouds in icing conditions and you'll see.

 

 

S!

Plug fouling does exist in the SIM, as does coolant boiloff - just neither are well represented with visible symptoms in anything beyond their impact on power & engine life:

 

(…) I agree that if we use 150 grade fuel in the sim, we should have to deal with plug fouling. (…)

 

 

Yes, you are already dealing with fouling and not only at idle... :)

Plug fouling does exist in the SIM, as does coolant boiloff - just neither are well represented with visible symptoms in anything beyond their impact on power & engine life:

 

so or i am good at engine managment in p-51 or every engine failer ends up with engine seizure, only engine seizure happen to me so far

Edited July 10, 2019 by grafspee