Viggen online pro tips?

I've been flying the Viggen online as of late, mainly PVe servers like GAW. I'm looking for some pro-tips for targeting or re-targeting with BK-90's mainly. I usually use the kneeboard default missions, but half the time someone else beats me to the target, or its a difficult attack in mountain terrain. I've tried using the "attack" waypoints on the F10 map but find it to be totally useless on GAW, the target waypoint is just nowhere near the actual units, plus its a hassle to get the QFE right, I occasionally use it on strike missions with bombs and that seems to be ok. Anyhow, is combat flight of any use for online work? Also, do the elint missions do anything for online play? I really like flying my confused tree at mach 1.2 at 10m but its annoying flying 30 minutes to drop bombs and missing.

I just tried it and the auto-generated cartridges is enabled on GAW. The targets is visible on the map on the webpage too. You get QFE-info in the kneeboard. You can select them in the kneeboard “menu”, I think it’s number 7-12. Another more risky tactic is this

I just tried it and the auto-generated cartridges is enabled on GAW. The targets is visible on the map on the webpage too. You get QFE-info in the kneeboard. You can select them in the kneeboard “menu”, I think it’s number 7-12. Another more risky tactic is this

Hi Ragnar,

Yes the cartridge is enabled in GAW, doesn't seem to be on some other servers and I know I can get the QFE from the kneeboard that way.

I guess what I'm asking is there a better way to be doing stuff than the way I'm doing it currently.

Is combat flite worth trying online?

And do the auto generated ELINT missions do anything online?

I'm in a similar boat with the Viggen in MP. Lately I've been contemplating asking CAS aircraft over SRS for target co-ords to punch in. Up until now I've just used the auto-generated targets.

I find high-drag bombs easiest and most effective to use, preferably in PLAN-mode or alternatively CCIP-mode. The way they work in DCS makes them more lethal than BK90 and if you keep your speed and have low ingress you wont be fired upon. Also, VR-zoom helps a lot.

The Viggen is an outstanding aircraft that has been done awesome by Heatblur.

However, especially on servers like GAW, it is pretty useless.

Groundtargets are normaly shot down quite fast and if they are still alive (Check with Alt+F11 first), an 10c with 6 Mavs is normaly already on the way to it.

Then, there is another thing:

The Viggen is a one strike and away aircraft, most ground targets on GAW are tanks and other ground vehicles standig quite far away. So, it is just not reasonable to do a one strike attack on one tank.

Attacking targets in the mountains is also quite hard with the Viggen, and as far as I remember, the Bk90 does not work in MP, or a t least, does not make that much damage.

There is only very rarely a Mission where you have to attack a large building somewhere near Sochi. Thats perfect for the Viggen, but only little chance to catch it.

So, thats why I mainly play on the Trough the Inferno Server with the Viggen.

At first, you can also fly at Persian Gulf, and in second, there are SHIPS!

What could be more fun, then pre-planing, flying and bomb away some ships with cruise missiles (RB-15) or just missiles (RB-04), RTB and do the same again? Awesome :)

Especially if you have a buddy to do that with 2 or 3 Viggens :).

You need to see 4 or 6 RB-04 being launched at the same time and rushing down there with big smoke for those nasty little ships...

And if you use the RB-15, you should try to land before the impact *gg*

I flew 4 sorties in GAW last night and took out 6 ground targets and 4 aircrafts (parked). I flew into the ground twice because I was distracted :). I wouldn’t say it’s useless at all on GAW

I have similar issues deploying the Viggen on many servers.

The handful of biggest problems being:

1. The apparent lack of interest in having Maritime targets online. This is one area where the Viggen is perfectly deployed, but mission makers seem to forget that the ocean can be militarised, and the only attention they give it is a carrier for F14s to take off from. Given the vast amounts of coastal and maritime areas on the maps, this is a major mission design oversight IMO.

2. Targets which are just bunch of ground vehicles/ units all spaced apart. The viggen isn't suited to loitering near a target area and making repeated atatcks is both deadly and outside of its design/ role. Whilst the mavericks can be used against single vehicles, using them effectively usually requires multiple passes on a target. What the viggen is better at is delivering lots of firepower in one spot, in one pass. Not many servers have targets that favour this.

3. Similar to the above, Airfield runways can't be harmed in DCS. This is a probolem with the DCS engine. Bomb craters disappear after aa few minutes, so it's not possible to take out an airstrip/ runwasy - which is exactly what a number of the Viggen's weapon systems are perfectly designed for.

4. Targets on wildly varying terrain (i.e. hillsides etc) are very difficult to get at with the Viggen. Without knowing the QFE at the target, or the precise altitude of the target (when it's on a mountain side, for example) the BK90 and other weapons jst dont deploy properly.

5. The Hard-coded map buildings cannot AFAIK be set as targets in a mission ion the way that units and static-place buildings can. The base map is coverd in industrial plants, harbours, etc.. but mission makers can't tell DCS to assign these as "targets", which is higly annoying. Some of the ports (especially the liquid stores), for example, would make wonderful targets - if we could use them as such.

I flew 4 sorties in GAW last night and took out 6 ground targets and 4 aircrafts (parked). I flew into the ground twice because I was distracted :). I wouldn’t say it’s useless at all on GAW

Sorry, I did not ment to use the word "useless" negative or not able to operate.

I meant it more like "the there avaialble tasks are not really that, what the Viggen was designed for".

Basicly that what philstyle said above this post.

Of course, you could make 10 passes and drop everytime one bomb on one tank, but... you know... :)

Thats why I prefer the TTI server, blasting ships away is that what the Viggen was designed for :)

While we're here, has any ever seen any pictures/diagrams of the dispersal pattern for BK90's when they're used in wide or long vs normal? I've occasionally tried wide or long, but had mixed results.

On the actual BK90 damage, the following is a BK90 drop on TTI. It was using MJ1/MJ2, but only the soft targets were destroyed. Should the AP munitions be able to do a bit more than this, or is this expected? Down in the bottom left is where the BK90 released I guess.

I did have a second BK90 inbound, but it was shot down.

It would be nice if there were a way to see where the auto-generated targets were located on the F10 map (or any map), often I get the co-ords and manually look for them in F10 to see if I'm going to be helping the other CAS sorties at all, or if I'm just going to be bombing some random thing.

And its not a Viggen specific problem, that most servers are favoring scattered units, best suited for targeting pod and loitering type warfare. F-5, MiG-21, L-39, C-101 are all in this boat too.

They need them self some bridges, buildings, railway depots, trains, supply convoys (trucks and ships), EWR sites that arent protected by SA-11, SA-15, SA-10 batteries. They can take on SA-2, 3 and 6 sites too, if you can stay low and do a hit'n run.

In other words, not enough proper interdiction on servers, thats where the Viggen and its friends would shine.

Well, I didn't intend for this to turn into a online bitching fest :), but I mostly agree that most online servers are basically catering to CAS planes with TPOD's like the A10 or Harrier at this point. Rather than strike aircraft.

I do fly on GAW and as many have pointed out its annoying when I pull an autogenerated mission and by the time I get there its basically gone due to other players. Or at least the strike point the autogen picks is cleaned out.

I have started flying on the inferno server, but its much less organized, not really much cooperation going on there, I have yet to hear anyone on SRS. Is there some sort of point to the missions or a way to win like GAW?

A few questions on the autogen, where does it place the actual waypoint? Oftimes I'm hitting "near" the target with BK90's but it seems like its usually on the edges of it. (I switch to the F6 view to check where the bomblets are landing) I usually follow the perscribed B1, B2, M3 path, but maybe its not ideal. And I agree it would be great if there was a way to check where those waypoints are on the F10 map.

I've been using the high drag bombs a bit more lately. And I managed to totally wreck one entire factory complex with them in one pass, that was fun. Took out some AA parked next to it too.

As an aside I don't find the mountain missions too bad, a bit challenging to find the right way to approach and drop of the BK90's though, but I've had decent luck against the mountain SAMs on GAW. (It would be nice if the jammer worked for missiles fired at me from behind though, cuz right now its often one-pass-eat-grass)

Those SAMs in the mountains are normaly IR Sams, so no jammer can help you ;). Those are just bitches. Even if the ceiling is not as low as usual, its a hard time to blast away those targets there even with a Harrier or A10C.

Why don't you make your own flightplan on the F10 map and instead of useing a pre-planned?

I have similar issues deploying the Viggen on many servers.

The handful of biggest problems being:

 

 

1. The apparent lack of interest in having Maritime targets online. This is one area where the Viggen is perfectly deployed, but mission makers seem to forget that the ocean can be militarised, and the only attention they give it is a carrier for F14s to take off from. Given the vast amounts of coastal and maritime areas on the maps, this is a major mission design oversight IMO.

 

 

2. Targets which are just bunch of ground vehicles/ units all spaced apart. The viggen isn't suited to loitering near a target area and making repeated atatcks is both deadly and outside of its design/ role. Whilst the mavericks can be used against single vehicles, using them effectively usually requires multiple passes on a target. What the viggen is better at is delivering lots of firepower in one spot, in one pass. Not many servers have targets that favour this.

 

 

3. Similar to the above, Airfield runways can't be harmed in DCS. This is a probolem with the DCS engine. Bomb craters disappear after aa few minutes, so it's not possible to take out an airstrip/ runwasy - which is exactly what a number of the Viggen's weapon systems are perfectly designed for.

 

 

4. Targets on wildly varying terrain (i.e. hillsides etc) are very difficult to get at with the Viggen. Without knowing the QFE at the target, or the precise altitude of the target (when it's on a mountain side, for example) the BK90 and other weapons jst dont deploy properly.

 

5. The Hard-coded map buildings cannot AFAIK be set as targets in a mission ion the way that units and static-place buildings can. The base map is coverd in industrial plants, harbours, etc.. but mission makers can't tell DCS to assign these as "targets", which is higly annoying. Some of the ports (especially the liquid stores), for example, would make wonderful targets - if we could use them as such.

I agree on most points. But a few comments.

1. I have seen ships once in a while on servers, but its rare I agree. But the good news is the moment the F18 gets ASM's then there will be ships for them to shoot at. I think I even saw the kuzenestov on GAW at one point with much consternation about it until some viggen guys took it down with RB15's. And you wouldn't believe the bellyaching when the Stennis actually got hit by some cruise missiles.

2. This is a major issue with DCS in general. I have yet to see an online server with something resembling "realism" in this regard especially since they proclaim to try to model "modern near peer combat". One pass haul ass works primarily because generally ADA/sams don't see you coming until too late. The loitering/multi pass CAS stuff only really works in a permissive environment like the current GWOT where precisely bombing mud huts and toyota trucks from 30k feet is about as scary as it gets. Most of the cold war era CAS attacks by A10's/Harriers etc. were basically very viggen like, get the call from the FAC, setup the run, run in at 20ft off the deck pop up, brrt/CBU the tank column and GTFO because red air is coming to get ya. And you can't fly high because the IADS will kill you. But in GAW, I'm not sure how the AI works, but I'm very seldom bothered by enemy air, yeah it happens once in a great while, but I can usually either shoot em down or outrun em. And typically the real SAMS last only a short time because they are the #1 priority to kill in the first hour of each game.

4. Not a problem if you use the autogen mission since it gives you the QFE, but otherwise I made a suggestion to show QFE on the F10 map in the suggestion section, that way you can just hover over a point and get it instead of calculating.

5. I think this has been a "strong" wish for many years in DCS. Though mission designers can typically find places to drop an extra "factory/oil" etc target even in the middle of cities, and its super easy on the outskirts. But no one seems to think interdiction strikes are worth it, the way to win wars is by taking out BTR's one by one :thumbup:....

I don't know if its possible to petition the GAW or other server guys to change anything though.

Those SAMs in the mountains are normaly IR Sams, so no jammer can help you ;). Those are just bitches. Even if the ceiling is not as low as usual, its a hard time to blast away those targets there even with a Harrier or A10C.

Why don't you make your own flightplan on the F10 map and instead of useing a pre-planned?

1. I use the autogen because I'm usually in a hurry (very limited play time) or lazy :music_whistling: or both...

2. At least with GAW its pain to make the auto flight plan because you can only see the overall target area on the F10 map, so for use with BK90's its useless. Plus you gotta calculate your own QFE for those too which is more work. (Yes I know you can pull exact coordinates from the web-server and its gods eye view, but that feels "cheaty" to me.)

3. I dunno, I've totally blown up the better part of a SA10 site (with SA-8's and god knows what else there) sitting on top of a mountain peak in GAW with BK-90's. It even looked cool as hell since I came at its "blind side" and the BK-90's came over the military crest of the ridge to hit the SAM site on the other side while I ducked into the valley protecting me from the sams. It was pretty glorious especially since I didn't get killed for once and the 4xBK's actually blew the crap out of the whole site.

4. I actually don't have much trouble with IR sams. I'm usually fast enough to outrun them. Come in with 4xBK90's at mach .9 (do they work supersonic?) pop up to a few hundred meters to get some standoff range. Dump and break left, which basically means I'm out of AA and IR sam range most of the time, and if they do launch I'm doing M1.2 on the deck out of there so they miss. I think the deadliest SAM system for the viggen is the SA15/8 systems, 50 ft min alt is hard to do if there are trees (10m).

Also does setting the release height on the BK90's higher give you a wider dispersal pattern? I'm currently just using the default setting of 50m?.

In the GAW Discord, I asked for ships, and they told me that they are very hard to implement so that the whole mission is still working. Don't know if that is the whole truth.

But I think they are already working on it...

If you make now a flightplan with the markers on the f10 map, qfe will also be shown on the kneeboard. I find it by far more reliable to do your flithplan by yourself. You know what you are up to, you see the markers on the F10 map and it also takes only a one or two minutes.

For finding out if targets are still there, use f10 map and zoom way in. The hit ctrl+f11 and you csn take a look around ;).

I don't believe the release height for the BK90 can be set, I think it's just 60m and you can only set the "cruise height" which it will fly at, after which dropping to 60m. But there were bug reports a few months back about this not working:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=230957

To change the BK90 dispersal pattern it's:

TAKT - INPUT

921000 Long area

922000 Wide area

923000 Compact area (default)

LS/SKU button

I agree I think it will take until the F/A-18 gets the Harpoon before we see more anti-ship missions on MP servers.

In the GAW Discord, I asked for ships, and they told me that they are very hard to implement so that the whole mission is still working. Don't know if that is the whole truth.

But I think they are already working on it...

 

If you make now a flightplan with the markers on the f10 map, qfe will also be shown on the kneeboard. I find it by far more reliable to do your flithplan by yourself. You know what you are up to, you see the markers on the F10 map and it also takes only a one or two minutes.

For finding out if targets are still there, use f10 map and zoom way in. The hit ctrl+f11 and you csn take a look around ;).

Didn't know about the CTRL-F11 function... Cheaty feeling, but at least I don't waste time bombing dead tanks. I'll probably start using the Web tool plan attacks. Anyone know if you can enter "decimal" coords or higher precision coordinates? i.e. 44.14.32.XXX ?

Also, I've noticed that the Autogenerated missions can send me to real targets that aren't shown on the GAW F10 map, which is interesting. I hit a Red FARP this morning defended by tunguskas, no "circle" on the GAW map for it.

Also of note the U22/A seems to work well against the tunguskas. No launches against me when using it, and 2 launches (2 launchers) on me when I wasn't. Still, the tungaskas were far enough the FARP for me to miss with BK90's both times.

Didn't know about the CTRL-F11 function... Cheaty feeling, but at least I don't waste time bombing dead tanks.

As there is no intel, zero to none coordination and of course all pilots are egoists, I see CTRL+F11 not as cheaty, I see it more as my personal intel.

With that, doing a flightplan on the F10 is done in seconds and you also know what you are up to...

Why do you wan to enter somehow higher precision coordinates? Viggens INS's drifts quite bad, even over short time.

Just trying to get more precision with bk90s when used online. The autogen missions are sort-of hit or miss accuracy wise, but I can usually get 1-2 kills, soft targets with MJ1's are usually more effective than the MJ2's. When dropping a waypoint randomly on the map without being able to "see" the units, like in GAW its pretty dodgy, so I'm trying to see if I can use the online GAW coordinates for targets in the viggen which have higher precision.

Also, do the BK90's dispense at the center of the waypoint, or at the beginning?

Also I realize IRL, you'd probably have rough coordinates, fly to the area and try to true up the release point using the radar, but I've had 0 luck with that, either I'm not seeing the blips, or misinterpreting them, and my attacks are ineffective. I'm flying in VR so looking at the display at lower res isn't ideal. And since I'm often in a fairly hostile IADS environment, popping up to use the radar is generally a bad idea, as I usually get a SAM enema.

To get more precise INS I would do one or two fixes enroute to target and also be extra careful when lining up on the runway and taking off as straight on the runway as possible. The manually inputted coordinates in Viggen doesnt support more precise coordinates than seconds and in DCS:Viggen these are assumed to be upper left corner (ie 0) becuase I havent seen any info about and this is just an assumption on my part. The data cartridges in DCS:Viggen supports higher precision though, but this is also an assumption on my part. So if you are making a fix on a manually entered coordinate you should try to make it in the corner for best accuracy.

I recommend E69 Public server.

You can fly Interdiction missions. The only thing, you would probablyneed escort or fly in Viggen mode (altitude = 0 ft).

To get more precise INS I would do one or two fixes enroute to target and also be extra careful when lining up on the runway and taking off as straight on the runway as possible. The manually inputted coordinates in Viggen doesnt support more precise coordinates than seconds and in DCS:Viggen these are assumed to be upper left corner (ie 0) becuase I havent seen any info about and this is just an assumption on my part. The data cartridges in DCS:Viggen supports higher precision though, but this is also an assumption on my part. So if you are making a fix on a manually entered coordinate you should try to make it in the corner for best accuracy.

I don't think INS inaccuracy is my issue (could be I guess), I'm using TERNAV and 90% of the time it reads 5/0, so no "inaccuracy" unless I'm misunderstanding how it works I shouldn't have "much INS drift.

The issue is the the units I'm trying to hit with the BK90 are never at the zero mark, and I don't know where to place the actual "M" waypoint on the F10 map since I can't see them (hidden). But the GAW serve has the units and coordinates online to the decimal degrees.

Also, the autogen missions never seem to include the actual possible strike missions on GAW, i.e. hitting buildings. Is that a limitiation of the algorithm generating the missions? Also could this system be improved to target "Types" i.e. SEAD/Strike/CAS? (pretty please)

I recommend E69 Public server.

 

 

You can fly Interdiction missions. The only thing, you would probablyneed escort or fly in Viggen mode (altitude = 0 ft).

Your link is broken.

And, I usually fly at 10m, the altimeter doesn't really go lower :music_whistling:. So that's usually not a problem.

Actually I wish I would get credit from all the mig ground kill's I've gotten flying online, I'm saving the Swedish taxpayer some serious money by not using my missiles. And I know how high those taxes are. :megalol:

Terrnav in DCS has an accuracy of a little over 100 meters so fixes would still help. The generated missions tries to find points with highest density of enemy units. Worst (imaginary) case the units are placed in a circle and the target point would be in the middle of the circle.