How would a CH Fighterstick compare to an older stick? Like x45?

I have a X45 hotas, and the stick is getting done for. It's very sloppy and I need to put in a large dead zone to keep it from veering all over the place. But that's making any precision bombing almost impossible.

I keep reading how the CH stick is old 8bit technology, but how does that compare to a stick like the X45? With the sloppiness of the X45, would the CH still be an upgrade?

I ask, because you can find some used CH sticks here and there, and I know from owning a set decades ago how simply bulletproof they are.

I can't compare to the X45, but did pick up a fighterstick, and I love it. Smooth motion, and flying improved dramatically from a TM HotasX.

I ask, because you can find some used CH sticks here and there, and I know from owning a set decades ago how simply bulletproof they are.

Probable X-45 controller resolution is 8 bits like CH because they are contemporaneous products - of end of 90's of last century. :D

The issue with your X-45 is because their potentiometer's are worn out due use (happens with all pot'), then reading became very erratic.

CH's are subject to this to since use pot, but their pot have better quality (CTS brand) and CH provide replacement (now selling in Digikey).

Other than pot worn out no issues with CH's, that are really durable - I have an CH Combatstick bough in 1998 that - now updated for USB (DIY), still "bullet proof".

If eventually their controller axes low resolution (8 bits - 256 "steeps") bother you, with an $5 Arduino PRO Micro you can update for 10 bits easy (12 bits with extra component), wiring only the axes in Arduino.

So don't miss a good deal due this peculiarities.

I've had my entire CH kit (Fighter stick, throttle, pedals) for going on...umm. Not sure, but whenever the USB model came out. Like 20 years ago?

Having said that, when it a) does stop functioning [mechanically or software], or B) I have several lazy hundred dollar bills just laying around with nothing to do, I'm going to purchase a Thrustmaster or its ilk. If the price [used] is right I'd say you can't go wrong. If it's not then go with a TM or the like.

I believe, at least back when mine was made, CH was a company that made this kinda stuff for commercial/industrial customers. That's why they've held up. Maybe CH still does I don't know.

[edit] and as far as 8-bit tech goes; I've never tried anything with more 'bits' so i can't compare. I've never written any software that consumes input from joytsticks so I can't tell you how significant the difference would be (8 vs more). In the end it's about 'feel', and it feels fine to me. The only 'jitter' I get is from the pedals, but that is handled via deadzone.

Other than pot worn out no issues with CH's, that are really durable - I have an CH Combatstick bough in 1998 that - now updated for USB (DIY), still "bullet proof".

 

If eventually their controller axes low resolution (8 bits - 256 "steeps") bother you, with an $5 Arduino PRO Micro you can update for 10 bits easy (12 bits with extra component), wiring only the axes in Arduino.

 

So don't miss a good deal due this peculiarities.

Thanks. I think I mentioned on another thread I had a whole set of CH that I gave away because it was the old serial connections. You say you DIY'd an update, if you detailed that I'd love to read it.

I've had my entire CH kit (Fighter stick, throttle, pedals) for going on...umm. Not sure, but whenever the USB model came out. Like 20 years ago?

 

Having said that, when it a) does stop functioning [mechanically or software], or B) I have several lazy hundred dollar bills just laying around with nothing to do, I'm going to purchase a Thrustmaster or its ilk. If the price [used] is right I'd say you can't go wrong. If it's not then go with a TM or the like.

 

I believe, at least back when mine was made, CH was a company that made this kinda stuff for commercial/industrial customers. That's why they've held up. Maybe CH still does I don't know.

I really loved my CH Pedals. I missed an auction on Ebay where a guy's USB Fighterstick and Pro Pedals went for $7. Obviously something that won't happen anytime soon, but I really kicked myself there.

But I agree, if I'm going to buy new, I would buy a TM Warthog stick. I'm still considering that, but being patient and watching some sales for awhile.

And, I used to live close to CH. They are in Vista, CA which is north of San Diego. I went to their factory once when I had a problem with my stick. They fixed it on the spot for me. And yeah, they are mostly a commercial manufacturer. It's really kind of a shame they don't seem to be supporting PC much.

I really loved my CH Pedals. I missed an auction on Ebay where a guy's USB Fighterstick and Pro Pedals went for $7. Obviously something that won't happen anytime soon, but I really kicked myself there.

 

But I agree, if I'm going to buy new, I would buy a TM Warthog stick. I'm still considering that, but being patient and watching some sales for awhile.

 

And, I used to live close to CH. They are in Vista, CA which is north of San Diego. I went to their factory once when I had a problem with my stick. They fixed it on the spot for me. And yeah, they are mostly a commercial manufacturer. It's really kind of a shame they don't seem to be supporting PC much.

I've flown another sim since 1999 online (Aces High), and a long time player/friend there worked for CH for many years. The owner of CH sold the company in 2007, which was unfortunate for dedicated sim players for a few reasons I won't get into here. Still, CH is a great option to this day with a 20+ year old design.

I hunt for bargains on HOTAS to add to my hotas collection daily, all the used forums/etc here in Canada plus worldwide. I found a CH Fighterstick and Throttle that were both brand new, totally unused, from a kijiji.ca add a couple months back - cost me $30 CAD, so about 22 USD for both, delivered. This isn't even the best deal I've found either, got a TM Cougar that was fantastic condition for $30 + 10$ shipping. ha. ha. ha. Hah!

CH made their first rudder pedals differently than the current ones, the only moved in one axis, like the toe brake axis, and were VERY solid. A bit narrow though, but some of the best pedals out there until the new custom ones started showing up. https://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-PD55KAS-Rudder-Pedals/dp/B00004TOYT

To answer the OP question - I'd take a good used Fighterstick (or new one) before I took any Saitek, including the X65f(I have 2 of these, as well as examples of every other Saitek hotas going back to the x36).

Yeah , IMO , they're garbage , but to be fair my x-52 was a Mad Katz-era edition . Maybe Logitech will improve .

Yeah , IMO , they're garbage , but to be fair my x-52 was a Mad Katz-era edition . Maybe Logitech will improve .

Agreed, Logitech has a very, very solid rep when it comes to mice, and keyboards too, even though I personally hate their Romer G switch, quality wise, they have been great.

I will say that the X65Fs I have (2 of them, and I have had 2 others) are a bit higher up the quality scale, I think due to their cost that perhaps they had their own separate build team, or at least tighter quality control. I have nothing to base this on other than no other explanation as to why they are better than the x36/45/52/55/56s I've tried and owned.

I have both the X45 and CH using mainly the FighterStick, Pro throttle and pedals, I like that setup alot, bought it on ebay dirt cheap. I'm not to crazy with X45 joystick but wish I could use the X45 Throttle with my FighterStick, I like the way it fits in my hand. Never had problems when I was using the X45 setup and still works great, I have another set bran new that I keep as a spare

You can't go wrong with CH or X45

Marc..

wish I could use the X45 Throttle with my FighterStick

Why can't you use the X45 throttle with the CH Stick? I know you have to have the X45 stick plugged in, as the throttle connects thru the stick's USB. But can't you have both the X45 and the CH stick plugged in and just setup the CH stick in game?

Why can't you use the X45 throttle with the CH Stick? I know you have to have the X45 stick plugged in, as the throttle connects thru the stick's USB. But can't you have both the X45 and the CH stick plugged in and just setup the CH stick in game?

True, I could, but want to keep conflicts at a minimum, that's why my setup is all CH, only dealing with one software, but probably will be thinking about it

Marc..

Use two, three or more different brands of controllers (even the same type, e.g. joystick) don't create conflicts in modern games, is matter of correct assignment of controls.

Joystick Gremlin software allow combine different brands of controllers in one virtual - if this is important for you.

Use two, three or more different brands of controllers (even the same type, e.g. joystick) don't create conflicts in modern games, is matter of correct assignment of controls.

 

Joystick Gremlin software allow combine different brands of controllers in one virtual - if this is important for you.

The problem is with older games like 1L2, the only way I could configure my setup is using it as one controller setup, it didn't like to see many controllers, in my case anyway, maybe I was doing it wrong

Marc..

If eventually their controller axes low resolution (8 bits - 256 "steeps") bother you, with an $5 Arduino PRO Micro you can update for 10 bits easy (12 bits with extra component), wiring only the axes in Arduino.

Hi Sokol1, this is exciting news for me, as I believe I could use such precision for CH sticks

I was wondering if you could write or youtube a tutorial on how we might do this, increase the resolution to 10 or 12 bit resolution, exactly what components we would need, that kind of thing.

Might this conversion also allow for a really old gameport CH stick to be able to use USB ? I ask because I have gameport CH gear that would love to go back into service!!

First stick I owned was a CH Flightstick Pro, bought in 1997, before USB. Ended up with someone gifting me an older two-button Flightstick. Lately been using a Fighterstick and found a spare Fighterstick, and someone was selling an old gameport Pro for dirt last year so I picked that up.

Rick50

Check Rel4y topic in this CH sub-forum, he already have solution for upgrade CH's - main controller and contacless sensor, but due pandemic are impossibility to send for outside of Germany.

Might this conversion also allow for a really old gameport CH stick to be able to use USB ?

For upgrade yourself (DIY), first you need know how make solder and have tools for the job.

For those old gameport controllers you need an USB controller.

Can be for example an comercial solution like Leo Bodnar BU0836A - $ 35.

Or you flash a cheap (~$5) Arduino PRO Micro clone with MMjoy2 firmware (10 bits) or

an STM32F103C8T6 with FreeJoy firmware (12 bits). Both have topics there.

See this gameport for USB conversion example - using Arduino+MMJoy2:

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4329494/ch-flightstick-pro-ch-pro-pedal-usberization#Post4329494

Is not difficult, just require some time and patience.

I flew the A-10c on Full Real for almost three years and joined the 476th while using CH Gear.

It will work!

I have a X45 hotas, and the stick is getting done for. It's very sloppy and I need to put in a large dead zone to keep it from veering all over the place. But that's making any precision bombing almost impossible.

 

I keep reading how the CH stick is old 8bit technology, but how does that compare to a stick like the X45? With the sloppiness of the X45, would the CH still be an upgrade?

 

I ask, because you can find some used CH sticks here and there, and I know from owning a set decades ago how simply bulletproof they are.

I used to have the Saitek X36 before the CH FS & PT. I loved the saitek throttle. Back then it was still Janes Longbow 2's prime time, so the rudder axis built-in behind the throttle handle was very useful. Overall it was a good product, but not very durable. It lasted about 2 years than its pots went rubbish. In comparison, I bought my CH FS & PT in 2011 and I still use them. It begs for magnetic sensors upgrade with better resolution, but overall, the quality is there. It's solid and lasts forever, tho it's not precise enough for example for A2A refueling.

Rick50

 

Check Rel4y topic in this CH sub-forum, he already have solution for upgrade CH's - main controller and contacless sensor, but due pandemic are impossibility to send for outside of Germany.

 

 

 

 

For upgrade yourself (DIY), first you need know how make solder and have tools for the job.

 

For those old gameport controllers you need an USB controller.

 

Can be for example an comercial solution like Leo Bodnar BU0836A - $ 35.

 

Or you flash a cheap (~$5) Arduino PRO Micro clone with MMjoy2 firmware (10 bits) or

an STM32F103C8T6 with FreeJoy firmware (12 bits). Both have topics there.

 

See this gameport for USB conversion example - using Arduino+MMJoy2:

 

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4329494/ch-flightstick-pro-ch-pro-pedal-usberization#Post4329494

 

Is not difficult, just require some time and patience.

Is it possible to upgrade the CH FS & PT with higher res than 12bits?

Is it possible to upgrade the CH FS & PT with higher res than 12bits?

Yes, with MMjoy2 and FreeJoy firmwares you can use TLE5010/11 contactless sensor whose ADC has 14 bits of resolution.

https://aliexpress.ru/item/32634095245.html

But IMO for CH gimbal but there's much reason and benefit for do this, this gimbal has much of play (mechanical deadzone) since has just bronze bushing in axes pivots.

Is possible install bearings in gimbal pivots but maybe require re-drill the holes, what require specific tools for keep holes aligned.

Sorry, are you saying the CH design has a mechanical deadzone?

And that mechanical deadzone can be "eliminated" by doing these higher bit upgrades? (12 bit and 14 bit) Or it can be eliminated by the new contactless sensors?

Meaning, the mechanical deadzone may still be physically there, but the new sensors will ignore the mechanical deadzone because of the precision of the new electronics?

Or will the DCS still see a deadzone in CH stick output, even with the 12 and 14 bit upgrades, or the contactless sensors... and require installation of bearings to eliminate this deadzone?

Oh and HUGE thank you for sharing your knowledge!!

No, I am saying that due the gimbal mechanics play are not reason for 14 bits resolution, because the option for have 14 bits is use TLE5010/11 sensor what require a precise gimbal, without this the the sensors sensitivity (able to detect 0.00xº movements) will detect that play and maybe disturbing axis response.

But you can use the original pot's in 12 bits controller (BU0836, MMjoy2, FreeJoy), since this don't require changes in gimbal.

What is more simple to wire, just the 3 wires for connect potentiometer. TLE5010/11 require 6 (serial protocol).

Potentiometer is not resolution limiter, their limitations is useful lifetime.