Neutral side shows up in f10 map and iff as OPFOR...why?

so stoked to finally have a neutral side available to use in the editor, I built a mission with the civil air mod that had civilians flying around in airliners, to try to simulate busy threat airspace so the guys would have to work hard to detect and kill the baddies who were using the civs as cover.

yea that didn't work.

many many civilians died.

turns out while they show up on the editor map as grey they show up in mission as red, combine that with the iff returning as enemy and it was a slaughter.

I only have one question

why?

why make neutral aircraft the colour of the enemy? I don't know how the civilian iff system works so I can't speak to that but why are they enemy on the map?

the premier of Australia was on his way into the area for an important diplomatic mission, all he got was an ammram to the face

an emirates a380 was swiftly reduced to a collection of parts by a phoenix

the virtual death toll when all kills were tallied was in the 1000s

the virtual mass media are running round the clock coverage of the massacre

why ed why?

IFF never returns a hostile indication. IFF can only return either a friendly indication or no indication if the contact doesn't respond, which means it's identity is unkown.

I don't know your mission, whether human piloted aircraft shot at the neutrals or AI did. As Quigon correctly stated, the IFF system in RL shows either a friendly response or no repsonse. A no repsonse doesn't automatically mean it's an enemy though!

With IFF mode 3 transponder, which can be used when using LOTATC, you can assign IFF codes to AI aircrafts. In such a way, you could set a certain band of IFF codes that airliners need to use and the LOTATC operator would know that it won't show up on IFF mode 4 but does show up as a "squawk" that would indicate a neutral airliner.

Again, this wouldn't stop a human aggressor to use a code in that band in order to spoof a LOTATC operator.

You're going to need to set up IDCRITS, or IDentification CRITeria for the mission.

Example:

If contact emerged from friendly airbase AND shows friendly mode 4 (after interrogation) -> Friendly

If contact emerged from friendly airbase AND squawks mode 3 airliner code -> Neutral

If contact emerged from unknown airbase AND squawks mode 3 airliner code -> Bogey

If bogey contact adheres to published airlane AND altitude FL300 or above -> Neutral

If contact does not adhere to published airlane AND altitude < FL300 AND does not squawk mode 3 airliner code -> Bandit

And so on...

I've made a flow-scheme in the 132nd for one of our campaigns, I'll see if I can dig it up.

IFF never returns a hostile indication. IFF can only return either a friendly indication or no indication if the contact doesn't respond, which means it's identity is unkown.

Except in DCS. You've explained how it should work, not how it does work. IFF in DCS returns HOSTILE red HAFU when they provide zero IFF response. There's not enough noise about this, but realistically, it's for multiplayer accessibility.

To the OP, not clear what you are saying to be honest, it was too much story and not enough technical detail. I reported a bug where AWACS reports a DECLARE as hostile on a neutral plane and haven't bothered checking it again because I can't make anything else go faster once reported. F-18 HAFU's remain ambiguous yellow for neutral after interogation, I tested that much.

Except in DCS. You've explained how it should work, not how it does work. IFF in DCS returns HOSTILE red HAFU when they provide zero IFF response.

No it doesn't. What gives you a HOSTILE red HAFU is NCTR or offboard designation.

Unfortunately in this case its bugged, neutral coalition planes will show up as HOSTILE red HAFU instead of yellow neutral. AWACS will also report them as HOSTILE when asked to DECLARE.

I think we also need to differentiate between the different aircraft too. The FC3 aircraft have a simplified magic IFF, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if neutral aircraft are returned hostile in those planes right now. The Hornet and Viper have a slightly more complex IFF model, and should return a neutral contact as Unknown.

Ultimately, in a realistic scenario, IFF is not going to be extremely useful for distinguishing civilian aircraft from hostile ones. The only thing it can reliably do is tell you if the contact is friendly. No civilian aircraft that I am aware of has an encrypted IFF transponder, and even if they did NATO would not risk compromising their codes by disseminating them widely to civilian aircraft operators. Civilian radar transponders are interoperable with NATO Mode 3 IFF, but they don't use them as an IFF system and they're not secure. This is why all air combat in the last few decades has relied heavily on visually identifying aircraft before engaging.

Unfortunately in this case its bugged, neutral coalition planes will show up as HOSTILE red HAFU instead of yellow neutral. AWACS will also report them as HOSTILE when asked to DECLARE.

Thought so.

To be clear, civilian aircraft were ai neutral side

Me and my friends where the ones who shot down the civil aircraft, they (neutral air) were not engaged by any ai units on either side

They showed up as enemy on the in game f10 map

Jester and awacs designated these aircraft as enemy

So we engaged.

I had just expected them to show up as grey for neutral in the map which is why I left them visible, makes sense that they are bugged

sad state of affairs... :<