F-16

Perhaps the answer to the question has nothing to do with the relative performance of the two airframes, but more to do with the question;

"If you are going to invest 5 or more years in developing a module for DCS, would you pick something different from a competitor product or, by making the same one, draw attention to the differences between the two simulators and risk the fact that you expose yourself to the advantages that the other has, rather than the advantages DCS: World has?"

"If you are going to invest 5 or more years in developing a module for DCS, would you pick something different from a competitor product or, by making the same one, draw attention to the differences between the two simulators and risk the fact that you expose yourself to the advantages that the other has, rather than the advantages DCS: World has?"

Yes, it's good that ED doesn't make a WWII sim, that market is pretty crowded and competitive.

Oh, wait...

Yes, it's good that ED doesn't make a WWII sim, that market is pretty crowded and competitive.

 

Oh, wait...

Good point. :)

One might argue that it wasn't a real intention, more of an evolution of Nick Grey's idea and RRG falling over.

Other than that, i'm fresh out of ideas, why don't they just make one!

I don't have any doubt that if ED ever makes a F-16, it will be the best simulation of this aircraft available for public use.

I don't have any doubt that if ED ever makes a F-16, it will be the best simulation of this aircraft available for public use.

I don't have any doubt that if ED ever makes a F-16, it will be the best simulation of this aircraft available for public use.

exactly :thumbup:

and I have no doubt that some day we will see a full fidelty ED F16 in DCS :joystick:

Love this picture! The other, cough, F-16 Sim is at its full apex. There is nothing more that can be done for the old girl. I would love to see a DCS F-16C in the future. Not right now though. I am waiting to see how this Razbam Harrier turns out and and if it is like the M2000C, holy Chit man! The CV OPS is the cats meow when it comes to the flight sim world. We all, and yes all of you, want to be our own Maverick. I can't even talk about the Bomb Kitty without losing my train of though, that reminds me, did I put the garbage down and clean out the litter boxes, anyway - I want to see the other modules first. Just my 2 cents. Happy flying guys!!!!!!!!

I'm sure I have posted this in the past, but still cool video. You can see some of the information provided to the pilot by the AAQ-13 navigation pod during low level/ TFR flight

SixYwbkrJ1A

Keep in mind this is in a Greek Block 52+, so cockpit lightning and other thing are different from other F-16.

Love this picture! The other, cough, F-16 Sim is at its full apex. There is nothing more that can be done for the old girl. I would love to see a DCS F-16C in the future. Not right now though. I am waiting to see how this Razbam Harrier turns out and and if it is like the M2000C, holy Chit man! The CV OPS is the cats meow when it comes to the flight sim world. We all, and yes all of you, want to be our own Maverick. I can't even talk about the Bomb Kitty without losing my train of though, that reminds me, did I put the garbage down and clean out the litter boxes, anyway - I want to see the other modules first. Just my 2 cents. Happy flying guys!!!!!!!!

I agree that the F-16 time is currently not the best for it to come to DCS for two main reasons. 1. There are already one too many great modules that are about to be released like the F-14, F/A-18 and the AV-8B Harrier and more in the pipeline like the F-4E Phantom. 2. The F-16 is currently in active service and will remain so for many years to come. Which means those modern systems are currently classified. So unless they were to try to do any early version like the F-16A/B I don't see it becoming very feasible anytime soon.

In the mean time there are already too many modules coming to keep me occupied for a long time.

it's hard for me to understand why dcs lacks f16. It's the most successful military jet aircraft of modern era.

You must not be familiar with what it takes to do a DCS module, so I will try to briefly explain what factors are necessary to be able to bring any aircraft to the full fidelity level of simulation DCS wants for all of its future modules. The main element needed for the development of any future module is data of all the aircraft's systems. That includes flight data, weapons data, navigation, radar etc..

If data is what is needed it must be available to start development. So if all of the necessary data is classified then it simply wont be available. The data that typically will be classified is that of all aircraft in active service. The data that would be de-classifed and available would be that of retired aircraft.

There is one exception that has happen in the case of the A-10C where DCS was contracted years ago to make a simulator of the A-10C for the Air National Guard for training purposes. So DCS was provided with all the necessary data to make a simulator as realistic as possible. Afterwards DCS asked permission to make a consumer version for which they received clearance if they left out a few elements of the weapons systems deemed classified.

So at this point in time the F-16 remains in active service all over the world with other countries. So that practically means that any late version of the F-16 is very classified and data is unattainable.

However there might be chance of obtaining data for an early version of the F-16 A/B since most F-16's have been upgraded for sometime.

That didn't stop ED from making a late lot F/A-18C, they are still in active service and have many of the same capabilities as block 40/42 and 50/52 F-16C's, I mean we are even getting JHMCS with our DCS F/A-18.

Like I described in an earlier post I think they decided to purse the Hornet first because of the carrier capability and the added gameplay it brings to the game rather than the shore only based F-16.

Now the block 50/52 F-16's first were delivered starting in 1991, around the time our hornet was built and upgrades to these block 50/52's bring the systems up to pretty much parity with the Hornet we are getting for DCS world.

Now the intro graphic for the hornet videos if slowed down does show an F-16. I think that once the tech is coded for creating the DCS F/A-18, the building process of a DCS F-16 would not be that big of a stretch. I think they just chose the Hornet first due to the Carrier ops gameplay it would provide.

Even though I am normally with the side that says "too modern, not nearly enough reliable info, not happening" to most modern aircraft, a few exceptions such as the Hornet and Viper are much more accessible with lots of declassified material available. Even the Viper's actual FLCS code was made available at some point.

So while I don't really care much for a DCS:F-16C myself, "too new, too classified" doesn't really apply in this particular case in my opinion.

ED is doing a 2000s F/A-18C, and I think a late 90s or even 2000s F-16C may not be a huge stretch either. The very latest versions though, I don't think them to too likely. Doesn't matter much however, even a mid to late 90s F-16 should be more than enough to satiate DCS virtual pilot's modern options needs, be it precision strike, bomb trucking, targeting pods, amraams and whatnot.

dont assume as to why a F/A-18C is being done before the any F-16s..

First time caller.

There is one exception that has happen in the case of the A-10C where DCS was contracted years ago to make a simulator of the A-10C for the Air National Guard for training purposes.

One exception? How about the...?

• MiG-29
  
• Su-25, 27 and 33
  
• F-15C

And I believe the Mirage-2000 fits that list too regarding operational aircraft.

Now I understand that the classified nature of operational aircraft and all that, and that ED can have more free access to Russian makes. But in particular, the fact that the F-15C is in the sim and the F-14 and F/A-18 are coming indicates to me that the Viper is just losing the popularity contest to the carrier-based jets, and nothing more. Which is a shame because many of us, including the militaries of the West, see the F-16 as the natural adversary of the MiG-29.

I'm brand new to DCS and just purchased much of the content in the fall sale, but I have to remark on how weird are some of their selections for inclusion in the game. I really think they should have focused more on the modern "East vs West" confrontations which the world's armed forces will likely be facing, as the old Cold War polarities are lingering, though I completely understand a "politics agnostic" approach to modern scenarios. I think a proper mix of both "Soviet Block" and U.S./NATO aircraft should have been pursued from the start. I would suggest a roadmap which revolves around something like this:

Light attack Russian

L-39 Albatros

Yak-38 Forger

Yak-130

Light attack West

OV-10 Bronco

A-37 Dragonfly

C-101 Aviojet

Hawk T1

Alpha Jet

A-4 Skyhawk

Jaguar

Harrier

Medium attack Russian

MiG-27 Flogger

Su-25 Frogfoot

Su-24 Fencer

Su-30 Flanker-C

Medium attack West

AJS-37 Viggen

Tornado

A-7 Corsair II

A-10 Thunderbolt II

A-6 Intruder

F-111

F-15E Strike Eagle

Light fighters Russian

MiG-17 Fresco

MiG-19 Farmer

MiG-21 Fishbed

MiG-23 Flogger

Light fighters West

F-5E Tiger II - and F-20 Tigershark for a lark

JAS-39 Gripen

Mirage F1

Mirage-2000

F-16 Falcon

Medium fighters Russian

MiG-29 Fulcrum

Su-27/33 Flanker

Medium fighters West

Rafale

Eurofighter Typhoon

F-14 Tomcat

F/A-18 Hornet

F-15 Eagle

F-22 Raptor - yes, this is a dreamer

Bombers Russian

Tu-95 Bear

Tu-16 Badger

Tu-22M Backfire

Bombers West

B-52 Stratofortress

B-1B Lancer

Attack helicopters Russian

Mi-24 Hind

Ka-50 Black Shark

Attack helicopters West

UH-1 Huey

AH-1 SuperCobra - lordy, we at least need this to balance off of the Ka-50

AH-64 Apache

SA342 Gazelle

Utility transport helicopters Russian

Mi-8 Hip

Mi-26 Halo

Utility transport helicopters West

UH-60 Blackhawk

CH-47 Chinook

Early Warning and Control Russian

A-50 Mainstay

Early Warning and Control West

E-3 Sentry

Yeah, lotsa planes, but this would have made a much more sensible roadmap than to throw in Korean War and WW II vintage oddballs. I know that a lot of gamers are hungry to refight The Great War, Korea and Vietnam, but what we have now is such a hodge podge. I know, woulda shoulda coulda, but I expect a lot more from this modren human race...

In any case, what we have is a solid air combat game, if a little haphazard with aircraft stable, and the models and graphics are so good, I have lots of new fodder for my art resource portfolio. And I'm digging this place. Might not post all that much, but I'll definitely want to do some reading over the months.

Sigh... yeah your post does announce being a first timer even if you didn't say so, or if your post count wasn't listed as 1.

DCS is not that... it is a simulation of aircraft, first and foremost. So yeah, what many calls a hodge podge, actually comes with the package.

Also, I'd have to point out that many items in your suggested "roadmap" is either already released, or is in development.

The aircraft you have listed as "how about", as you should have noticed, are not nearly the same fidelity of simulation as the A-10C. Neither is the Mirage 2000C, even their devs admitted to making a few things up as they go due to lack of declassified material on that particular airframe.

There has been countless "coherent" flight sims since... well the inception of flight sims... I am rather happy that we have this one "hodge podge", in fact, it is probably why I'm even still sticking with it, even though it has lots of issues that frustrate me for years.

Sigh...

Pleased to meet you. ;)

Okay, I'm slogging through the "official" Road Map now. What I'd been going on turns out to be old and surprisingly incomplete, though it did line up with what's available in DCS now. I stand corrected, and should know by now to follow Reagan's adage, trust but verify, check original sources before posting and all that.

I do have to say though that what ED and partners offer now is kind of a hodge podge. It's a nice HP to be sure, but I still think a more matched East vs West asset for asset approach, fudging and all, would have been a better idea. Relying on Ka-50 for our sole gunship is a bit of a bummer.

Oh, and no IFF yet?? I've been watching Grim Reaper videos for a week now and thoroughly enjoying them, and have been wondering about the occasional friendly fire incidents. Man... i'd put working friend or foe stuff at the top of my To Do list personally. Makes me think I'd better hold off on any online stuff till that's going. It's bad enough trying not to shoot friendlies in No Man's Sky when they fly right in front of you.

Anyhow, I have a lot of goodies to look forward to it seems. No hard feelings, hopefully. Now, if I can just get DCS 1.5 to install my modules without immediately crashing...

dont assume as to why a F/A-18C is being done before the any F-16s..

It's becus of alien technologie

I think picking a Hornet over Viper was a good decision for ED. It avoids direct comparisons with Falcon and introduces another interesting multirole fighter that hasn't been done properly in any simulator in recent years, with carrier ops as a bonus.

That being said, I hope we will get an F-16 one day. It will be really cool to compare both airframes in one sim. :)

I wonder if anybody here has heard of this group: https://www.facebook.com/pg/VirtualViperDemoTeam/about/?ref=page_internal

They appear to have their own F-16 DCS module they are using for aerobatics. I don't suppose they bothered with weapons systems and combat avionics, but there it is.

pretty sure everyone looking for an F-16 has heard of it.

I honestly have no idea. On the one hand, I only came across the FB page recently by accident, and on the other hand, I ran across this thread not so long afterwards by coincidence. So I took my hands out of my pockets and put them together... and here we are :smilewink:

Personally, I don't have a dog in this race, as I only fly warbirds, but if I can give a hand... :)

pretty sure everyone looking for an F-16 has heard of it.

I had no idea this existed and I can see that it's pretty much finished in looks and FM. These people could sell it as a DCS addon but ED doesn't let third parties to develop the Viper

I had no idea this existed and I can see that it's pretty much finished in looks and FM. These people could sell it as a DCS addon but ED doesn't let third parties to develop the Viper

it's only an FM and Some Systems, and no Combat Systems IIRC.

I will patiently wait through all the anguish and misery for an F-16. Just like we did with the A-10C and are doing for the F-18/AV-8B/F-14. At some point ED will always come through and deliver in the end.