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Pitch UP when Carrier Launch with Auto Flap


backspace340

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Before we start - I know you're meant to use half-flaps for takeoff. That said, if you takeoff with auto flaps then the Hornet pretty much tries to kill you - the LEF and TEF pull straight up and you basically do an uncommanded loop straight off the end of the carrier / field. Seems like the only way to stop it is to cycle the flaps to half and back to auto which stops the murderous FCS.

 

I've attached tracks from both the carrier and field, but it's easy to reproduce - do any of the hot start instant actions, flip flaps to auto and do a full burner takeoff. Make no inputs. You'll loop and crash.

autoflapstakeofffield.trk

autoflapstakeoff.trk

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Pitch UP when Carrier Launch with Auto Flap

 

I know to use half flap in carrier launch,

But using Auto Flap in Takeoff, The pitch go too much high and was not effected trim down.

It fly with pitch high trimmed state and can not be trim down.

 

Only have to do is, gear down and up and flap full and auto. it reset the trim. I think it must be a bug.

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Proper Takeoff setting is Half Flaps and trim set appropriately for Takeoff Weight...

 

12. FLAP switch - AUTO

 

13. Controls - CHECK

Tolerance for rudder and stabilator position is ±1°.

 

a. Control stick - CYCLE

Full aft: 24 NU stabilator

Full fwd: 3 NU

R/L Aileron: CHECK 20 units differential stabilator.

CHECK differential trailing edge flaps

 

b. FLAP switch - HALF

c. Rudder pedals - CYCLE 30° left and right

 

14. Trim - SET FOR TAKEOFF

If takeoff trim is not set, full leading edge down stabilator movement may not be available and

takeoff distance will increase.

 

If you are using flaps AUTO or FULL for takeoff...its not a bug.

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Proper Takeoff setting is Half Flaps and trim set appropriately for Takeoff Weight...

 

 

takeoff distance will increase.

 

If you are using flaps AUTO or FULL for takeoff...its not a bug.

 

 

The problem is not the distance increase.

 

I report the problem of "The Pitch is abnormally go High and can not be trimmed."

 

Did any other plane fly like that?

 

I said I knew half flap in spec.

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I do not understand this thread...

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Yes , i need to stop reading irrational threads .

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I report the problem of "The Pitch is abnormally go High and can not be trimmed."

There are still some weird bugs in F-18, and you can report this in the bugs section.

 

I have no doubt ED is quite aware of this. Landing and take-off parts of flight modeling are likely put in separate coding bubbles, and either they can go expand on that, or, in the mean time, they cannot.

 

Staying within the parameters of the coding, i.e. staying within the limits of what is possible, keeps you within the parameters of the simulation 'as is'.

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Pitch UP when Carrier Launch with Auto Flap

 

I don’t think that this thread is irrational, If you take of with minimum weight, why do you need to use half flaps? But if this “half flaps before trim” is a must I will not say anything against this, but this “wtf!, I forgot to put half flaps” is a really threat against your life situations.

 

There must be an alarm just like when Im to take of with the wings folded.

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.


Edited by arturojgt

Arturo "Chaco" Gonzalez Thomas

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Hold your own beer.

 

Holding my own beer inhibits my ability to spectacularly screw up:)

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I thought there was no manual trim unless you had half or full flaps selected. In auto it's auto trim.

 

 

 

But why if you take off from a carrier or a runway with flaps on auto and do the auto trim the plane pitch up, literally I have to push forward strongly to lower the nose. I’m new so most probably is my fault but I want to known why is this happening.

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

Arturo "Chaco" Gonzalez Thomas

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But why if you take off from a carrier or a runway with flaps on auto and do the auto trim the plane pitch up, literally I have to push forward strongly to lower the nose. I’m new so most probably is my fault but I want to known why is this happening.

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

 

Cycle the flaps - set to half and then back to auto, and it'll stop (and remember to set half-flaps next time). It's almost certainly a bug - I can't believe the Hornet FCS was programmed to attempt suicide if you forgot the flaps switch in real life.

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I thought there was no manual trim unless you had half or full flaps selected. In auto it's auto trim.

 

Auto Flap is just Auto control the Flap.

Elevator Trim is trim the elevator control not the flap.

That is why you can trim elevator or aileron even in auto flap mode.

If your hornet can not control elevator trim in auto flap mode, it must be another bug.

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Auto Flap is just Auto control the Flap.

Elevator Trim is trim the elevator control not the flap.

That is why you can trim elevator or aileron even in auto flap mode.

If your hornet can not control elevator trim in auto flap mode, it must be another bug.

 

 

Someone else may want to chime in, but I'm pretty sure you can not manually adjust the elevator trim unless you're using half or full flaps.

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But why if you take off from a carrier or a runway with flaps on auto and do the auto trim the plane pitch up, literally I have to push forward strongly to lower the nose. I’m new so most probably is my fault but I want to known why is this happening.

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

Most likely because your wheels are not fully up and locked yet, and after which you still need an instance for the FCS to kick in correctly.

 

With you wheels down, the FCS will (might) think you're stalling (until above 200 kts or so) and thus FCS will drive the nose up for it doesn't know you're taking off, for you're in a wrong configuration.

 

After launch I always back the throttle for in instance, no nose up, then 100% throttle or whatever is planned for ascent, meanwhile wheels lock (flaps lock), FCS kicks in, flight continues 'normal'.

 

No idea if this is RL, but it works (and makes some sense).


Edited by majapahit

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Most likely because your wheels are not fully up and locked yet, and after which you still need an instance for the FCS to kick in correctly.

 

With you wheels down, the FCS will (might) think you're stalling (until above 200 kts or so) and thus FCS will drive the nose up for it doesn't know you're taking off, for you're in a wrong configuration.

 

After launch I always back the throttle for in instance, no nose up, then 100% throttle or whatever is planned for ascent, meanwhile wheels lock (flaps lock), FCS kicks in, flight continues 'normal'.

 

No idea if this is RL, but it works (and makes some sense).

 

Please try and test again. I certainly Gear Up after Auto Flap launch. But still too much AOA in Gear UP state.

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Someone else may want to chime in, but I'm pretty sure you can not manually adjust the elevator trim unless you're using half or full flaps.

 

Modern Fighter FCS is quite great thing but it does not detect very slow drift of movement of controlled surface.

 

It means, if plane rotate or rise or go down very slowly, the FCS does not know, only pilot know. That is why trim SW is exist in fly-by-wire system.

 

So, the elevator trim should be work properly even in Auto Flap mode, as aileron trim work.

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