DCS: MiG-23MLA by RAZBAM - Page 15 - ED Forums
 


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Old 06-22-2018, 02:08 AM   #141
Maico249th
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I'm so crazy about this project. Awesomeness from Razbam once again. Count me in. Oh, and if I had one request. I like how F-18 came with lots of quick missions. Hint, hint.
Still loving your MiG-19. Hope its out soon.
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Old 06-22-2018, 02:38 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex854Warrior View Post
Countermeasures are a must apprently in DCS because they are effective, fact is, chaffs alone are very much useless against any type of doppler radar with counter-countermeasures (basicly since the 70s), Fox 2s since the 80s have very powerfull CCMs and render flares almost useless aswell. You want countermeasures because DCS models them in a very basic and poor way, but as probad said, geometry is what saves you.
Things aren’t that black & white.
I think you’re underestimating chaff and flares. If it was useless, it wouldn’t have been fitted to latest fighters.
Plus who said you have tu use chaff alone ?
Of course the defensive tactics combine manoeuvres, ECM, chaff and flare when needed.

And pilots don’t talk that much about chaff & flares because they don’t get shot at that often, and there are a lot of restrictions to use them in training.
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Old 06-22-2018, 04:06 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Prowler111 View Post
Thanks for opening the thread
The team behind is the same team behind the MiG-19, as so, Overstratos is the guy 3d developing this beast, this is his "sweet girl", he is absolutely devoted to it.
The version that will be available is the MLA, why? because it's the version we have access to, the real plane, in all it's glory so accuracy wont be a problem.
As for release date, none whatsoever right now, there are some other projects STILL in 3d art department that need to be finished 1st, being one of these, the MiG-19.
As usual, regular work in progress pics will be posted, either here or in FB.
Question will it truly be an MLA variant or MLD since thats what there were upgraded to starting as a MLA.?
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Old 06-22-2018, 04:12 AM   #144
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Nice that being said too bad you couldn't offer the Sub variant MiG-23- 98-2 for Buyers as well like small upgrade package MiG offered that only upgraded the radar Sapfir-23 to the Moskit-23 i believe or the other way around, and HMS and allowing it to fire the R-27 and R-77 making it truly a threat to the Hornet and Tomcat.
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:11 AM   #145
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Actualy, third most powerful. The most powerful were british F-4M, after them - F-4K/F-4J/F-4S. So the second most powerful MiG-23 against the third most powerful Phantom, with similar avionics and fligt dynamics linitations... seems legit.
Actualy MLA was fifth most powerfull Flogger, after domestic MLD and P, and after export MLD clones MLAE and MLAE2. Writing about F-4 I mean general capabilities not only radar.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:20 AM   #146
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Such great news, way to go again Razbam!


Anyone else read the book "Red Eagles" about the (sort of) secret USAF unit flying Russian/Soviet aircraft? The chapters in that book about their Mig23s they flew gave me an entirely new respect for this fighter, the USAF pilots sure described it as an incredible machine, which tbh surprised me.


I can't wait for this one, boy oh boy oh boy.
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:06 AM   #147
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That surprises me too, since the Tomcats handles them with relative ease at Sidra. Or maybe the Navy really does have better fighter pilots than the USAF????
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:21 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo View Post
Things aren’t that black & white.
I think you’re underestimating chaff and flares. If it was useless, it wouldn’t have been fitted to latest fighters.
Plus who said you have tu use chaff alone ?
Of course the defensive tactics combine manoeuvres, ECM, chaff and flare when needed.

And pilots don’t talk that much about chaff & flares because they don’t get shot at that often, and there are a lot of restrictions to use them in training.
Well in DCS, chaffs will affect the missile, which is not exactly realistic. A doppler radar with basic CCM will filter chaffs without any issues, rendering them useless if they are used alone (by that i meant without the use of ECM, which when in use with chaffs can, by sending energy on the chaffs instead of the aircraft, possibly create a new contact that could confuse the ennemy's radar, in DCS this is not simulated yet). Chaffs can be usefull used that way, and are most likely used like that today.

Flares in DCS get you out of any IR missile, just fire a couple of them if the missile is more then a half a mile away it will go for them. the AIM-9M is particularly bad in DCS because of that, all the AI's i've encountered in the Harrier, flare once and my missile is trashed.
They don't have supercomputers on board but they can analyse the signal, they can compare the size of the target to the one of the flares (or other heat sources) it picks up,... Missiles aren't dumb, it feels like they are in DCS.
Of course flares are designed to mimic the aircraft (i'm not sure but they could be developped for each aircraft). Flares used in massive quantities, with appropriate maneuvers, will make a "wall" and potentially save you, maybe when you are far enough the missile will switch targets, but when the missile is in close (half a mile seems too close), I seriously doubt you can avoid it with flares.

Countermeasures aren't useless when used properly, but right now in DCS, more with flares then chaffs, it really seems whatever you do, you can get away with countermeasures.

I'm sure with the new FLIR coming for DCS and other ECM/Radar improvements, I'm no expert but i'm sure we will see a big change.

EDIT : Lets get back on topic , I'd be happy to continue the conversation though.
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:43 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert31178 View Post
That surprises me too, since the Tomcats handles them with relative ease at Sidra. Or maybe the Navy really does have better fighter pilots than the USAF????
Well you have to consider that the Mig-23 flown by the Libyans at the Sidra encounter was the Mig-23MS which was a very much downgraded model.
For example it had the RP-22 radar from the Mig-21 and if i remember correctly it was only able to carry the R-3/R-13 series of missiles
so not only was it unable to carry the R-23/R-24 BVR missiles it was also unable to carry the R-60 for close range encounters.


And it also lacked the IRST.
This overall made the Mig-23MS probably inferior to the Mig-21Bis in terms of combat capability as it had the same radar but inferior weapons while also being less agile.


The Mig-23MLA is on a whole different level from the Mig-23MS as it weighs less has a more powerfull engine and a Radar / weapon system that is miles ahead of the Mig-23MS (as it had a capable Radar with look down capability + the ability to carry the R-23 and R-24 BVR missiles in both Radar and IR guided forms).

So the Mig-23MLA outclasses the Mig-23MS in every way and is much more lethal.

While the F-14 still has the advantage over the MLA they might be in for a shock if they come in expecting an easy win.
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:16 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattebubben View Post
Well you have to consider that the Mig-23 flown by the Libyans at the Sidra encounter was the Mig-23MS which was a very much downgraded model.
For example it had the RP-22 radar from the Mig-21 and if i remember correctly it was only able to carry the R-3/R-13 series of missiles
so not only was it unable to carry the R-23/R-24 BVR missiles it was also unable to carry the R-60 for close range encounters.


And it also lacked the IRST.
This overall made the Mig-23MS probably inferior to the Mig-21Bis in terms of combat capability as it had the same radar but inferior weapons while also being less agile.


The Mig-23MLA is on a whole different level from the Mig-23MS as it weighs less has a more powerfull engine and a Radar / weapon system that is miles ahead of the Mig-23MS (as it had a capable Radar with look down capability + the ability to carry the R-23 and R-24 BVR missiles in both Radar and IR guided forms).

So the Mig-23MLA outclasses the Mig-23MS in every way and is much more lethal.

While the F-14 still has the advantage over the MLA they might be in for a shock if they come in expecting an easy win.

And last but not the least, the training level of the Lybian pilots was probably below that of the US Navy.
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