The F-35 Thread

Lighter, faster, higher payload capability and larger combat radius. And the lift fan can't break lol.

And you have an internal cannon! Can't forget that.

Not a fan of the F-35 at all. Too pricey, too politically driven and too prone to failure to be reliable enough. Not surprised this thread is so huge lol.

Not a fan of the F-35 at all. Too pricey, too politically driven and too prone to failure to be reliable enough. Not surprised this thread is so huge lol.

Maybe politically driven, but prone to failure or pricey? No. Price is about the same and becoming even lower with each lot as 4++ gen aircraft like Eurofighter Tyhpoon and Dassault Rafale being about the same price point. See what the price quote for Rafales that Dassault is giving to countries trying to buy it. Much higher, but that price is also including some mandatory support for it.

Prone to failure? I don't know what this is coming from. What failure? F-35Bs maybe having issues with STOVL? Only US and Britain even wants F-35B and it is a very small niche. Everyone else wants F-35A, a standard fighter jet that is also stealth with awesome data fusion.

Politically driven I can kinda agree on... I think most people would prefer three independent designs for aircraft in the services here. Doesn't help that each congressman wants a portion of the development/manufacturing in their states, so that odds on cost. The price doesn't change too terribly by different states manufacturing different parts but it would have been better to have different designs for each service. There might have been more cost involved with that since each service would have to fund design competitions between Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Northrup Grumman, but maybe final designs would be cheaper. That's beyond me. Current F-35 isn't hurt too badly by the one design for three services though in my opinion.

Not a fan of the F-35 at all. Too pricey, too politically driven and too prone to failure to be reliable enough. Not surprised this thread is so huge lol.

sentiments that are not being borne out by reality.

- at $95mil a pop (and expected to go down to $80mil) they are already cheaper than the super hornet, ef2000, and rafale (hehe did you forget you had to buy tgps for these?)

- how many f-35 mishaps can you actually name? in over 125,000 hours of operation now the f-35's most significant incident that im aware of is a engine fire on the ground. f-35b has had zero incidents. and it's in demand: italy is recieving them, japan wants them, and even israel wants b models despite having a's.

by the way, even though it's given the b designation, the stovl version is the original baseline f-35 design. it's a purebred shortfield aircraft, an actual realization of the long sought dream of an agile supersonic shortfield aircraft -- and then some, because back during the depths of the cold war they couldnt imagine an aircraft doing all of that while also being an invisible eye of sauron.

what does politically driven even mean to you? do you somehow think other aircraft did not have to pass through political circles? do you think there somehow weren't any political interests behind other aircraft programs? do you think that not buying f-35s is somehow less politically motivated than buying them? (yes you know exactly who im talking about)

these are rhetorical questions of course since we can't get into a political discussion here, but i think you need to learn some history before you go off making assertions like these which, frankly, i don't think are even your own.

its kind of hilarious in a very sad way that nations like qatar, saudi arabia, and india (despite already having money in the su-57) who aren't in the clubhouse all want in on the f-35, while our nearest neighbor is outright refusing one of the greatest gifts to military aviation to date.

My biggest fear regarding the F-35 is the maintenance costs, i.e. will the aircraft be as cheap to operate over time as the other aircraft available or will the overall expenses, due to the many stealth features, paid over its lifetime dwarf that of the others? A small country such as ours don't need another money drain.

Isnt that just the nature of the beast? New stuff requires more money than the older stuff... F-86 was probably more maintenance costs than the P-51... so on and so forth...

Well I meant in comparison to the other choices, such as the Rafale, EF2000 or the one I really would've prefered we acquired, the Gripen.

Remember Denmark only really needs fighters for self defense, thus we don't need the most advanced bomber in the world.

Ah, I see what you are saying, in that case I would hope your politicians thought about that, but as we are not allowed to get political, best not to answer that ;)

Yeah, let's just say their track record aint too pretty :pilotfly:

Not a fan of the F-35 at all. Too pricey, too politically driven and too prone to failure to be reliable enough. Not surprised this thread is so huge lol.

Yeah, my fear is that they overstepped themselves trying to make a plane that could do everything better than any other plane. However, we really can't assume anything about the F-35 yet because the government doesn't want to share everything. In fact, they're probably downplaying it's capabilities.

Remember, they said the Osprey flew like a brick and was a total failure, and look at it now!

Those that know, don't talk about it.

Those who don't, scream about it.

Yeah, my fear is that they overstepped themselves trying to make a plane that could do everything better than any other plane. However, we really can't assume anything about the F-35 yet because the government doesn't want to share everything. In fact, they're probably downplaying it's capabilities.

Remember, they said the Osprey flew like a brick and was a total failure, and look at it now!

Well The concept of Multirole of Planes isnt new. F35 is simply a continuation of that direction 4th generation was already there with the likes of the F/A18 and later Iteration of the F16 having Vast Mission types on paper that could reach the length of an Arm

technology always gets more expensive. Nothing new here. However At some point one side or the other has to come up with advancements to create an edge over the other, and the Other tries to meet or exceed that on thier own.

A musket was more more complex to manufacture than a Bow and Arrow, that could be handcrafted and cheaper to trade/ Purchase and so on.

F35 Apart from Stealth being a prime selling point It has some the most advanced avionics and Sensors.

Likely that they are holding back, but just from public sources you get a fairly good idea of what the F35 can be capable of

and It is proving its worth from last RED FLAG. Now that the project is in production and maturing its slowly proving its worth. BUt there will always be doubters of any piece of technology Until it gets proven In actual combat

Rember what the criits Kept hammering on about the F15? crap to the F16 because Heavier more expensive and overloaded with unnesary technical junk?

the video on the F-35 systems is awesome, good watch, but as usual I made the mistake of reading the comments.

apparently having ergonomic screens and complete situational awareness and a God's eye view of the battlefield is too complex and makes it too hard for the pilot to fly the plane, according to highly qualified critics in the comments

the video on the F-35 systems is awesome, good watch, but as usual I made the mistake of reading the comments.

apparently having ergonomic screens and complete situational awareness and a God's eye view of the battlefield is too complex and makes it too hard for the pilot to fly the plane, according to highly qualified critics in the comments

Which is why a computer flys it and most modern aircraft! Pilot directs and computer does the hard work and calculations.

It’s funny, the actual pilots who have flown it are all raving about how easy it is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sentiments that are not being borne out by reality.

 

- at $95mil a pop (and expected to go down to $80mil) they are already cheaper than the super hornet

Google "current price of the super hornet"

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

F/A-18E/F Super HornetProduced1995–presentNumber built500 as of April 2011Program costTotal procurement: US$48.09 billion (through FY2011)Unit costUS$70.5 million (2017 flyaway cost)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet

As for the res I'll just repeat my previous statement. I am not surprised this thread is so long.

Google "current price of the super hornet"

 

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

F/A-18E/F Super HornetProduced1995–presentNumber built500 as of April 2011Program costTotal procurement: US$48.09 billion (through FY2011)Unit costUS$70.5 million (2017 flyaway cost)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet

 

As for the res I'll just repeat my previous statement. I am not surprised this thread is so long.

http://www.secnav.navy.mil/fmc/fmb/Documents/18pres/APN_BA1-4_BOOK.pdf

Wiki source. See page 80ish. That's USN-only, fyi.

A bit outdated info, but still great read:

http://aviationweek.com/site-files/aviationweek.com/files/uploads/2015/06/F-35%20High%20AoA%20Maneuvers.pdf

A bit outdated info, but still great read:

http://aviationweek.com/site-files/aviationweek.com/files/uploads/2015/06/F-35%20High%20AoA%20Maneuvers.pdf

...only if your name is Bill Sweetman or David Axe. Fortunately it sounds like further tuning of the CLAWS in the intervening period has yielded better results.

Boogieman,

hehe, I think you read too much into the "great" ;)

I find it very interesting read, not in a sense of how good/bad something is, but purely from development aspect of flying qualities ... most of the problems described there will/are corrected by software updates... ie F18 FBW has similar history ...

Boogieman,

 

hehe, I think you read too much into the "great" ;)

I find it very interesting read, not in a sense of how good/bad something is, but purely from development aspect of flying qualities ... most of the problems described there will/are corrected by software updates... ie F18 FBW has similar history ...

I suspect you are right Vatikus. Problem is that when the story first came out it was (and still is) cited as scandalous proof of the F35's inadequacy in the WVR domain overall.

The truth, as you and I seem to agree, is probably more complex than the clickbait bloggers would have us believe.

I can't tell if this is a real photo or photoshop

click on photo to enlarge

180214-F-NL936-1951

 

Two F-35A Lightning IIs, assigned to the 4th Fighter Squadron from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, conduct flight training operations over the Utah Test and Training Range on Feb 14, 2018. The F-35A is a single-seat, single engine, fifth generation, multirole fighter that’s able to perform ground attack, reconnaissance and air defense missions with stealth capability. (U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Andrew Lee)

Incidentally,The Lockheed Martin podcast "Inside Skunkworks" episode 4 discusses the development of The F-35 "Hat Trick"

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/who-we-are/business-areas/aeronautics/skunkworks/insideskunkworks.html

I found this gem. It's about the Canadian tender in early 1980's that saw the F-18 selection. The speech about the F-18 matches EXACTLY what is being said today about the F-35. Talk about history moving in circles...

4xJBvKJht78