MOOSE - Mission Object Oriented Scripting Framework

Nice Holiday work there FC. Sunbathing is way way overrated anyway :D

Nice Holiday work there FC. Sunbathing is way way overrated anyway :D

Thanks. I am an early bird. Like to wake up in the morning and am most of the time full of creativity

All,

Please refer to this link for details on MOOSE workshop #2 to be held end of September. Interested people can subscribe!

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2884235

Fc

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Done!

Done!

Great!

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Hello,

I would like to bring an unpleasant message to the community.

I have decided to stop with the development of this framework and with DCS overall.

There are a couple of reasons for that:

1. My first priority in life is my family, my kids, my wife and also my personal life.

2. I have spent of a lot of time on this development. It has become an addiction that i need to control. This has become unhealthy.

3. How many real users are really using this framework? I believe only a few. So, why am I doing all this effort if there is little interest in this, only from a few. Also, i am not paid to do this. What drived me doing this was my own creativity to work out the ideas that I had. But the framework has grown and it has become too much to handle in a healthy, manageable way that is both acceptable for the ones who are near to me, and for myself.

4. I was hoping some people would find the project very interesting and would reach out a helping hand, thinking jointly about design and helping to extend the framework in lua. In fact, I really was hoping that some people would see the benefits of the OO approach, and be enthousiastic about it. But for some reason or another, this has not really happened, although a lot of people joined, and some have been creating ideas and stuff and shared information. But it all comes down at the moment on my personal effort to develop it. Although a lot of people joined the slack channel, lot of people joined and dissapeared again.

5. There has been no interaction with ED on this framework, only very limited interest has been shown by some of the community moderators. When reporting some of the errors in DCS, I found myself being listened to, but not taken serious. This is a very discouraging experience. I mean, why has the moose framework not even been listed in one of the frameworks on the hoggit site??? And why has the moose framework not become a sticky on the forums? Not even half of the community knows it exists and what it can do. So, why am i doing all this effort if even the community does not see the benefits of it and want to engage on this track?

I know i am dissapointing a few people. The code is freeware, if somebody is interested to take ownership, i am happy to transfer that.

I have the tendency in my life to start with something, give a 150% of energy to that, make some great things, (but make mistakes also).

Don't let yourself get mistaken, i am still passionate about this project for DCS. I truly believe DCS is a great product, made by a skilled team, with lots of great ideas and work done! And it deserves a great framework. And i understand that the average gamer is not interested in learning lua and code stuff for this game, when making missions. So the audience for this framework would be very limited from an audience perspective anyway. So if i take all these parameters into the equation, why am I still trying to push this forward and sacrifice my own private life with this? It is not worth it.

kind regards,

Sven

Sven,

what you have started to develop is a huuge asset to this community, most just dont know it (yet). On the 132nd server, your scripts are live and in use since we learned about MOOSE and the Missile Trainer alone is worth it 100%.

I totally understand that you step down, and I hope you are not too disappointed that MOOSE did not get the credit that it deserves (yet!).

Everyone reading this, if you are into mission making, do get MOOSE and check out the sample missions, you will be blown away.

I wish I had any clue about coding, but sadly I don't.

Anyway, Sven, all the best, I admire what you created and I thank you for it.

o7

Sven, step away, take a break. Get in a good place, find some balance, get your RL under control. Nobody benefits here without a healthy happy Sven.

But don't stop completely. What you are doing is big, and it's time is coming -- just not today. DCS still has too much ground to cover to get to a stable environment, but I do believe they will get there. Let them get the DCS worlds merged and see where we are.

Some items can continue to be developed in the meantime.

MOOSE totally changed the way I look at mission building and I see a future for it.

But don't continue trying to do all the work yourself. Build a team and keep it moving forward.

Thanks for all you have done so far.

Sven, I believe that there are a much larger amount of people that that uses MOOSE than you can imagine. As @Entropy says in our little corner of the DCS comunnity we have had great benefit from your work both in our training missions as well as in our 'real' missions.

I also honestly believe that the lack of contribution is not due to lack of interest. For many of us coding is simply just black magic than we do not understand.

That being said it is understandably that you want to step back although very sad news for the entire community.

All the best wishes to you and your family

Cheers

Hans

I dont know lua and am no coder, dont even know your work but i have been there too.

Family 1st.

Save your energy, regain what you miss and you may come back to play again with your digital child....after you played with the REAL kids OUTSIDE,,, just did same thing.

No one fixes your family for you if its broken. Glad you saw the need, I didnt.

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Ohhh.

I have been following the Moose project, but, as mentioned, I am not a programmer and I am getting there slowly.

Take a big hollydays, you deserved!

It's a bit sad but I fully understand you. It's difficult and it's very time consuming following projects, even the smaller (I still have to improve & fix Save Mission and I'm slowing down to the main project due to reduced free time).

I hope that you will come back in the future, maybe as a supervisor of someone who can continue the project :)

I sent my regards in person, but I wanted to double post to show my support for MOOSE and your concept firstly but also remark on the loss we all bear when a community coder downs tools.

Firstly, this was a massive undertaking, and I'm honestly not surprised you felt it's pain eventually. For those that did not follow it in Slack, the work daily and even on your holidays abroad seemed at an unsustainable rate, the videos, the offers of tutorial sessions....was immense. It was also an uphill struggle with DCS, it's in continual development and some things are not tended to 'under the hood' which makes your project so much harder.

Secondly, I know that developer time and getting them to collaborate is challenging, primarily as there are so few, I actually tried this some time back, it's main barriers are that if you like DCS and like coding your free time is almost non existent and guarding your personal time is a huge, and a 'must-do' healthy excercise...and thats even before people guard their intellectual property, or are driven to, because lets face it, the hours we put in do make us feel like we should get something back.

Sven, I hope you do not quit everything DCS and perhaps downscale to a reasonable and sustainable level as you and people like you are the things we need so badly in the community and that provide us so much.

Hopefully you can find a balance, but wishing you peace of mind nonetheless for the future!

Mike

Best wishes Sven. I have followed your project even though with helping Markindel with bringing some mods into being I haven't had time to really try much of it out which is a real shame and no reflection on your work. I know exactly where you are at as I reached the same place with GCICAP where I began to feel guilty when I didn't work on it and you are right it isn't good for you. I can only suggest as some others here that you take a break and then if you feel like it come back and continue but have a realistic timeline for the work that gives you space for normal life and turns Moose into the interest and hobby it was meant to be rather than a job you are not paid for.

Best regards,

Stonehouse

Well.

As a selfimposed task, i wanted to learn MOOSE and use it, because I see the benefits of it. I am not a programmer but now (after a year or so of study) I can write few lines and small scripts.

My tribute is the following:

I am going to make a script for the Gazelle (or any other Recon aircraft) where:

You can detect enemies and send orders to a CAS flight. I think I can use ESCORT module, . So I will need help of you guys, but not from you Flightcontrol!!!! you just rest!!! and relax!!!! I see you coming!!!

well what I want is this

1- When you see enemy group, you put your heading aiming at him.

2- If the enemy is in Line of Sight with you, and +/- 5° regarding your heading, and at 10 kms max you can go to F10 menu.

3- In the F10 Menu you will see something like "load targets in sight" and automatically a list of the groups inside the zone giving its position will apear in another menu.

4- the other menu will be like

CAS flight/Targets/ target a

target b

target c

so if you press one of the options, the CAS flignt will attack such target.

5- You can "reset" the enemies table.

MOOSE has the tools to do so, I just need to restrict the possible target units represented in F10 and give the location in LATLONG too.

Actually i have something similiar in my CAS recon script, but this is a good excuse to migrate for me!!!

Again thanks

FlightControl, totally understand where you're coming from. Nothing is more important than family. Hard to add to anything that has already been said here. Myself, no clue about coding and the few attempts I've made at lua editing made my head hurt. :) So I rely on the kindness of people like you and the tools you offer us. Thanks for what you have done, I use it in the limited means that I have but just want you to know that your work has been very much appreciated! All the best for your future. S!

1- When you see enemy group, you put your heading aiming at him.

2- If the enemy is in Line of Sight with you, and +/- 5° regarding your heading, and at 10 kms max you can go to F10 menu.

I think that once you get the MOOSE version of a unit (UNIT:FindByName) you can then use the CONTROLLABLE:GetDetectedTargets function to find what the unit has detected because Units inherit from Controllable.

You can pass GetDetectedTargets a parameter to make it only return targets that are detected visually.

That's a start right?

Yep!

That is the point. Then, you load them in a way so when you give an order to the CAS fligth they will attack. so they should appear in the F10 menu, when you prick that order actually you are giving tasks.

sorry to hear that m8

Hi Sven,

Really sorry to hear that but completely understand. Between work and loved ones its hard enough to get decent gaming time... let alone a project the size and scope of this!

Secretly hoping you will take a break and then your addiction will get you again.. (hopefully not to the same extent though maybe)

Anyway, thanks for all the help and what is a fantastic framework... even if it isn't quite complete yet.

Good on you m8, hopefully speak u soon

It's good you gave up DCS (for now). It's not a mistake you invested in Moose, that is how you played DCS. Only having more planes is not what is the fun of DCS for many.

It' frustrating that in the transition to the 2.0 or 3.0? game-engine, scripting functionality hampers and stutters and that there is no serious communication with regards of what is or will be fixed and when. There is no sign that this will ever change in DCS.

As I read what you wrote. Moose gave you insights of: "game addiction", relationships, health and in enthousiasm a tendency to overfocus. Remember them to whatever you do from now on, thats wisdom.

Take it easy. Don't take things to serious. Someone like you is always welcome anywhere and anytime.

See you soon,

:)

First of all, thanks for the contribution to the community.

I agree with the RL and family first approach.

What may be the reason for many mission builders is to not really dive into MOOSE, yet(!), is the merge of DCS with a big potential, for breaking carefully balanced missions, etc.

I know for me at least, it is the reason to not care too much about mission building at the moment.

I sincerely hope the merge is not too far away and after a little beta phase we can start building more complex and dynamic missions in earnest.

Like with MIST and MOOSE I personally think, a lot of these scripting aids and frameworks should be more integrated to DCS and maybe available in the DCS install, without the need to put them into a mission, but that isn't easy to obtain, given the usual trouble around OpenSource in commercial products and responsibilities and other things to consider.

Anyway, a great addition and when I'm back into mission building for good, I'll definitely dive into MOOSE as well.

I wanted to address this because of two things. 1) ED communicated with you that MOOSE would be reviewed AFTER 2.5 was released. So you have had some communication with ED on this. 2) As I understand it, all the errors you brought forth were submitted internally by an ED tester, and, I asked this of that Tester as well. So that is being listened to AND taken seriously.

 

As explained before, all focus is getting to 2.5, getting back to one merged version with the new map tech and such. Nobody's issues are being ignored, but they are being prioritized. It's as simple as that.

Thank you Sith for your anwsers... good to know that everything is going further and beyond!!! And also is good that we, the users get some time to rest. DCS is very demanding in all aspects, even fling a module requires some study, etc.

We are really looking for the 2.5!

Sven, I'd like to thank you for sharing the work you have done with MOOSE and documenting it so well.

Although I haven't used MOOSE myself, I have found it in a couple of missions/servers already, so feel it's use was slowing gaining ground (DCS bugs allowing).

The scope of the MOOSE project was/is great, seeking to negate some of DCS's limitations with a holistic approach and DCS will be poorer without your contribution but perhaps someone else will pick up the torch, now you have shown the way.

Family and your own health come first in a project of such scope, that needs passion and enjoyment to be sustainable (not self sacrifice).

As I've found myself in a similar position in a smaller project in the past, I understand your decision and wish you well.

Fly safe and for fun, Ramsay.

I wanted to address this because of two things. 1) ED communicated with you that MOOSE would be reviewed AFTER 2.5 was released. So you have had some communication with ED on this. 2) As I understand it, all the errors you brought forth were submitted internally by an ED tester, and, I asked this of that Tester as well. So that is being listened to AND taken seriously.

 

As explained before, all focus is getting to 2.5, getting back to one merged version with the new map tech and such. Nobody's issues are being ignored, but they are being prioritized. It's as simple as that.

I think SithSpawn's comments are valid. DCS is a small team and I have to believe that they are pouring all their efforts into 2.5 as this will be their foundation for their whole program in the future. Once the core is redone they will address bugs. Im hoping they will address some of the bigger issues with the re-design like multi-threading or improving CA AI performance etc. Ive also got to believe that they will take a closer look at Moose or a Moose type environment as this will only enhance the game and bring in more players. If you look at other systems like Arma, the scripting language has helped that product thrive for years and opened up the community to work in parallel with Bohemia to make the game compelling after all this time.