DIY Force Feedback?

I recently recall seeing a thread from someone that was making a DIY FF stick by using electronic holding magnets. While I think there are drawbacks like metal shavings and such with the magnet, this idea is so simple it is brilliant!

No export needed, just a mod to disconnect the axis and the ability to link a relay to your trimmer button, and you can have all your BS2 controls working like the real deal. Dream stuff. :)

Looking for ideas from the smart folks here on other 'braking' devices that could be used to make a system like this. An example would be a closed-loop hydraulic system with an electronic valve (there are drawbacks to this, but just saying...).

Would anyone know of an exact part number for a valve needed for such a system?

Does anyone know where the post about the holding magnets is located? I cannot find it.

Ideas or part examples anyone can share? This is very doable if so!

I know this is not truly force feedback. I am thinking only of Blackshark controls.

thanks!

Well actually it's not that simple. The primary problem is the trim button has two features in game.

First is the force trim. Creating a purely mechanical system for force trim can replace this with out a problem.

Second is it sets the heading hold for the auto pilot. Now here is the problem, even with your mechanical force trim you will have to "press the button" in sim or your auto pilot will not work correctly. If your joystick driver does not report force feedback DCS will do the "virtual force trim" and now your mechanical force trim will create problems.

This means you'll have to do some driver and/or software hacking potentially to get this mechanism to work. Or potentially specifically use an existing force feedback stick and disable it's motors. Unfortunately driver hacking with current versions of windows requires you to buy a pricey signing certificate.

Lastly you'll have to deal with the rudder. In the real system the rudders are part of the force trim, but they always have virtual trim in game as far as I know.

Does anyone know where the post about the holding magnets is located? I cannot find it.

good bye re-center dance or how i added force trim to my joystick

Well actually it's not that simple. The primary problem is the trim button has two features in game.

 

First is the force trim. Creating a purely mechanical system for force trim can replace this with out a problem.

 

Second is it sets the heading hold for the auto pilot. Now here is the problem, even with your mechanical force trim you will have to "press the button" in sim or your auto pilot will not work correctly. If your joystick driver does not report force feedback DCS will do the "virtual force trim" and now your mechanical force trim will create problems.

 

This means you'll have to do some driver and/or software hacking potentially to get this mechanism to work. Or potentially specifically use an existing force feedback stick and disable it's motors. Unfortunately driver hacking with current versions of windows requires you to buy a pricey signing certificate.

 

Lastly you'll have to deal with the rudder. In the real system the rudders are part of the force trim, but they always have virtual trim in game as far as I know.

I disabled the "virtual force trim" with HelicopterTrimmerTauInverse=0.0 in FMOptions.lua. The autopilot seems still to work. At least heading hold works properly. But I'm not completely sure if pitch/bank hold is set correctly after releasing the trim button:

If I'm in a (what seems to me) trimmed forward flight and I press and hold the trim button (without moving the joystick) the nose pitches further down until I release the trim button. After trim release the nose pitches up. I think the pitch hold is still set to a more horizontal attitude although I was in a trimmed forward flight. Probably my force trim joystick is fighting with the autopilot. If I press and hold the trim button, the autopilot disengaged and the nose pitched further down.

Fortunately if I only briefly "tap" the trim button (no long trim button holding times) this behavior isn't noticable.

This means you'll have to do some driver and/or software hacking potentially to get this mechanism to work. Or potentially specifically use an existing force feedback stick and disable it's motors. Unfortunately driver hacking with current versions of windows requires you to buy a pricey signing certificate.

Just tick the DCS World > Options > Misc. > "Force Feedback Enabled" box.

And everything works fine as long your trim button is sending in sync the Trim command and looks the stick.

I tested it already several times.

Having a button that has two buses is sufficient .

When holding this button :

On bus gets connected and sends the "trim pressed" command

The other bus gets interrupted and releases the magnets.

That's good news Peter. I didn't realize you could force DCS to turn on force feedback without driver support!

NO need to have a real FFB joystick attached to get a Force-Trim input to work.

 

Just tick the DCS World > Options > Misc. > "Force Feedback Enabled" box.

Didn't work for me :(

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1618086&postcount=6

Well - this got me thinking now...

I will have a look if only having the FFB drivers installed on a system maybe triggers it too.

I had several times my controllers unplugged before starting the sim and it worked.

edit:

-anyway-

get the cheapest possible FFB device- even a mechanically broken one , as long the controller board works and it is detected as FFB device - a racing-wheel is sufficient.

EDIT #2

I got "Yoda" from X-simulation installed ... This is a program that can drive motors and also mimics a virtual FFB device that connects to DirectX...

Maybe that's why I can unplug my controllers and it still works.

Looks like I asked a good question for a change :)

Thanks for all the input! My plans were to just start with the rudders and take it from there. I can easily make my trimmer button work a relay to operate the magnet in my profile. I've tried Peter's unchain the rudder mod am I am liking it so far. I still want some centering force though and that's way I am looking into the magnet option.

I have a couple old FF wheels around here.

Don't know if this is of anyhelp but while doing some testing I discovered that while using my cougar as the controler and having my MSFF2 pluged in, the MSFF2 would give all the FF responses including trimming, even though it sent no input to the sim (that was the cougars job).

Hello,

I plugged in my MS FF wheel without a power source and DCS added it as a controller. When I checked the FF option (not expecting to get FF), the BS trim worked as if I was leaving the normal joystick in that position. This means I could make use magnets or whatever to hold the stick in place.

Hello,

 

I plugged in my MS FF wheel without a power source and DCS added it as a controller. When I checked the FF option (not expecting to get FF), the BS trim worked as if I was leaving the normal joystick in that position. This means I could make use magnets or whatever to hold the stick in place.

I would like to know if the trim behaviour I get with HelicopterTrimmerTauInverse=0.0 is the same as enabling the ff option like you have. If you don't mind can you please test it? I couldn't test it myself because I don't have a ff controller and enabling ff in my setup does nothing.

Ok mue, I'll look into it. I just did a very fast test to see of anything changed with the FF wheel plugged in. I don't have it plgged in anymore.

[LATER]

Yes, it appeared to do the same thing when I edited the file.

Ok mue, I'll look into it. I just did a very fast test to see of anything changed with the FF wheel plugged in. I don't have it plgged in anymore.

 

[LATER]

 

Yes, it appeared to do the same thing when I edited the file.

Thank you!