Definitive Air to Air Weapon range list?

Hi all, thanks for taking time to read this.

Obviously dcs doesn’t use real weapons ranges so I was wondering what the max range, effective range and any other ranges that may be important are for the air to air weapons for the cat

I’ve looked through the manual a few times and it doesn’t have any specific information for all the aa weapons

I was thinking something like this for example

Aim 54c

Max range:

Tws range:

Stt range:

Effective range:

Mad dog/acm range:

Minimum range:

The same for all variants of the 54 and all the other aa weapons, so anyone looking for the info can find it all in one place. You can find the real world info anywhere but the dcs specific stuff is a little harder

Obviously dcs doesn’t use real weapons ranges

How did you come to that conclusion?

I was thinking something like this for example

 

Aim 54c

Max range:

Tws range:

Stt range:

Effective range:

Mad dog/acm range

You know that all those values are more or less very variable, depending on your own speed and altitude?

TWS and STT range depends only on the sqare section of the target and the used radar mode.

How did you come to that conclusion?

/QUOTE]

 

Some are classified

Aspect matters so much... and you didn't mention that at all. Not only that, but aspect typically changes mid flight... and the missiles have different flight / intercept profiles depending on range and aspect... so there's no simple answer.

If you want to directly compare the performance missiles, you might look at drag, thrust, weight, and burn time (ISP) of the motors in the R-27ER, AIM-7, AIM-120C, AIM-54Amk60 and AIM-54C.

What you'll see is, the AIM-54Amk60 has a 30 second burn time, which means it gains waaaay more energy than all of the above, so naturally, it has longer range. But comparing ranges requires you to declare more of the firing situation than just "max range".

I've hit SU-27's at more than 80 miles with the AIM-54Amk60... i've also completely missed them at less than 10 miles because they maneuvered.

Pretty much what banzai said. The missile motor+current airspeed and alt basically define the "max" range (energy state) the missile can fly to if it doesn't maneuver. And doesn't take into account the target at all. But you are trying to hit a dynamically maneuvering target so you have to take that into account in all situations. So guy coming at you will be engagable at longer range than one moving away (assuming he keeps flying right into the missile). At the end of the day its all about the energy state of the missile and the energy state of the target.

If the conditions are the same for all the missiles then its possible to do.

We all know that aspect, altitude and speed of launch are important and we all also know that the aspect change during the missiles flight.

If we take the same initial parameters for each missile then its very possible to make a comparison for each one.

If the conditions are the same for all the missiles then its possible to do.

 

We all know that aspect, altitude and speed of launch are important and we all also know that the aspect change during the missile's flight.

 

If we take the same initial parameters for each missile then its very possible to make a comparison for each one.

THANK YOU! I was getting worried for a minute there.

I'm not looking for tables covering every single detail of a missile shot (because of the many many reasons above), I'm looking for a simple set of numbers ie, at 20,000 feet at 350kts the range and Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow is...

then same info for African or European swallow

so we have A SIMPLE SET OF NUMBERS to work off that we can adjust to our specific conditions for a shot

OR so we can load our aircraft with a different load for different conditions

I normally fly with a set load on the aircraft. that I have a reasonable idea of what the performances are, however sometimes the guy who makes our missions wants us to use a specific load using weapons I am unsure about the performance.

Also, there will be new players to the tomcat as it gets out of beta and I'm sure that they will be doing the same searches and asking the same questions that I am trying to learn what each thing is capable of without over complicating things

so once again...

If we take the same initial parameters for each missile then its very possible to make a comparison for each one.

what sort of numbers do we get as a GUIDE for our weapons

@PSYKOnz: What you need is ACM guide for the Tomcat. Search for the videos. Any set of numbers you get will be useless and counterproductive (esp. for rookies) in a dynamic realms of A2A combat. Consider 54 a LRAAM, 7 and 9 a SRAAM - that's all you need to know about range without shooting parameters.

I'm halfway through some AIM-54 PK tests. When finished, I'll have 2880 Phoenix fired (actually more, around 3500 'cause I made tabula rasa of the test a couple times before finding some good criterias). I have already noticed some very interesting things already, some expected, some not. In a couple days I'm going to start posting some observations and conclusions.

As other said already, numbers are not useful at all, although I have the numbers you are looking for. Can you answer the following questions?

A Phoenix can't kill a fighter at 100nm but can kill an AWACS at that range. Can you tell how come?

The same Phoenix can kill a fighter at 60nm but can also be easily defeated at 20nm. Again, how come?

You should aim to understand why you can have such a different outcome so you can change the conditions to your favor. Numbers are useless out of context.

I would be very interested in those numbers.

I think I may not be stating my question well enough, either that or the drive to overcomplicate is too strong.

KISS

let's get away from aircraft for a second.

your car has a range of 500km

however, depending on how you drive is a massive part of that

if you drive slower than on a flat straight road you will have more range

if you drive faster than average on a road with corners you will have less range.

we all understand this yes?

I am looking for the basic numbers.

I have been talking to captain google and she has range numbers for most if not all of the weapons. however, when using the exact same weapons in the game in a test environment I am having trouble meeting those numbers

again. I don't want over-complicated numbers just simple basic ones to be aware of. I am well aware that you all have big brains and that I have a little one. I'm just trying to get a simple set of numbers.

I work at a Mountian bike park and I often get asked "what pressure should I set my tyres too"

the answer I give them 9 out of 10 times is "30psi"

now in actual fact, the following comes into play for tyre psi with the following things massively effecting the pressure (real psi can be from as low as 15 to as high as 100)

tubless tyre or tubed tyre

the diameter of rim/ tyre

depth of tyre

width of tyre

rubber compound

profile of the tyre knobs

high or low rolling resistance

front and rear shock pressure settings

geometry of bike

rider weight

rider riding style

type of ride eg, fire road vs full DH

weather

trail conditions

and most importantly

rider personal preferences

but if you walk up to me and ask me what pressure ill say 30, because that's a good starting benchmark and if your asking me this question your most likely not aware of the above list or you don't care about it

I am looking for a good decent set of simple numbers for the weapons without the over complications that are relevant to the in the game world of DCS.

I'm halfway through some AIM-54 PK tests. When finished, I'll have 2880 Phoenix fired (actually more, around 3500 'cause I made tabula rasa of the test a couple times before finding some good criterias). I have already noticed some very interesting things already, some expected, some not. In a couple days I'm going to start posting some observations and conclusions.

 

 

 

As other said already, numbers are not useful at all, although I have the numbers you are looking for. Can you answer the following questions?

 

 

A Phoenix can't kill a fighter at 100nm but can kill an AWACS at that range. Can you tell how come?

The same Phoenix can kill a fighter at 60nm but can also be easily defeated at 20nm. Again, how come?

 

 

You should aim to understand why you can have such a different outcome so you can change the conditions to your favor. Numbers are useless out of context.

I've killed a fighter at 100nm with the 54Amk60, btw. :) Both of us supersonic and at 35k ft+ I've also killed fighters at 30+ miles with the AIM-7M... same deal. If they don't maneuver, they're toast. (it really helps if you turn on your RWR in a multiplayer server, btw)

Also, I'm very interested in your data regarding notch performance and if you find any difference between the tracking ability of the 54A vs the 54C. I figure about 15 - 30 shots is a significant (statistically speaking) number, but 3000 is a lot man! Can't wait to see your report and see how things evolve.

For the OP fwiw IRL we had Rules of thumb that gave you nose, beam and tail aspect shot ranges with an easy to remember adjustment for altitude. I think this is what you are looking for in your original post.

I guess you could put it together fairly easily just using a locked target and displayed lsz. Use a M.8/480kt tgt. And fly at a similar speed and while this only gives you a single valid snapshot those speeds are kind of average.

The only thing with DCS is that the radar never fails unlike real life ( at least in my experience and if it does fail the aircraft is so beat up it's basically a fight to land it) so you should always have a lock and therefore an LSZ which is probably why there are no published rules of thumb.

I would be interested in what you get though if you want to do the work.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

a good starting benchmark and if your asking me this question your most likely not aware of the above list or you don't care about it

Ok, since you want to be that guy let's say 3nm for AIM-9, 5 for -7 and 15 for 54 but if you ask any question or dare to mention the advertised ranges again you're back to the long list of shooting parameters.

I would be very interested in those numbers.

 

I think I may not be stating my question well enough, either that or the drive to overcomplicate is too strong.

 

KISS

 

let's get away from aircraft for a second.

 

your car has a range of 500km

 

however, depending on how you drive is a massive part of that

 

if you drive slower than on a flat straight road you will have more range

if you drive faster than average on a road with corners you will have less range.

 

we all understand this yes?

 

I am looking for the basic numbers.

 

I have been talking to captain google and she has range numbers for most if not all of the weapons. however, when using the exact same weapons in the game in a test environment I am having trouble meeting those numbers

 

again. I don't want over-complicated numbers just simple basic ones to be aware of. I am well aware that you all have big brains and that I have a little one. I'm just trying to get a simple set of numbers.

 

I work at a Mountian bike park and I often get asked "what pressure should I set my tyres too"

 

the answer I give them 9 out of 10 times is "30psi"

 

now in actual fact, the following comes into play for tyre psi with the following things massively effecting the pressure (real psi can be from as low as 15 to as high as 100)

tubless tyre or tubed tyre

the diameter of rim/ tyre

depth of tyre

width of tyre

rubber compound

profile of the tyre knobs

high or low rolling resistance

front and rear shock pressure settings

geometry of bike

rider weight

rider riding style

type of ride eg, fire road vs full DH

weather

trail conditions

and most importantly

rider personal preferences

 

but if you walk up to me and ask me what pressure ill say 30, because that's a good starting benchmark and if your asking me this question your most likely not aware of the above list or you don't care about it

 

I am looking for a good decent set of simple numbers for the weapons without the over complications that are relevant to the in the game world of DCS.

Talking to Captain Google is not useful in this case. Published missile ranges are influenced strongly by both marketing and propaganda and nearly always cite test firings in good conditions.

You Car metaphor distance is not applicable. If a car travels 100miles, it travels a hundred miles. But the road doesn't start moving in front of it and the distance a missile travels is not a straight road. Target ranges are given in F-pole, the distance between the shooter and target if it were to be fired now. That is a straight line distance and makes no account for the target deciding it's going to move and change anticipated direction. If it were "simple" then why doesn't the shoot cue come on in modern aircraft when it's inside maximum range? Why does it flick off and on as the bandit steers towards you or away?

You can't keep missile ranges "simple", as you put it, until you fire at a target whilst standing still at a target that doesn't move. Then they are reasonably predictable, as bullets prove. Your target evading you is NOT an over-complication as you put it! It the most relevant part of the equation, because missile ranges would be simple otherwise!

The longer the range of a missile, the further and more unpredictably the target can move away during the missiles journey, to force further unpredictable, draggy paths in different draggy atmospheres. Even the firing mode affects the high altitude cruise phase! TWS and STT DO make a difference.

If you want the "psi number", just go with 35nm. Current AI will not cooperate with anything reasonable though because they go into avoidance mode and evade eveything. Versus a human, depends if they are alert or predictable.

For the OP fwiw IRL we had Rules of thumb that gave you nose, beam and tail aspect shot ranges with an easy to remember adjustment for altitude. I think this is what you are looking for in your original post.

yes! that is exactly it!