LEAVU development phase, coding MPCD graphics

I make the US style MFD for leavu because I enjoy flying with it.

I'm sure someone will pick up and do a su-27 page.

I dont see why I have any obligation to make all instrument panels for everyone else.

If you want one you can add one to leavu. Or you can use the existing one, or you can

maybe play without it.

I wonder if you know how this datalink works. It does nothign unless i have a wingman

giving me info with it. Someone has to paint the target and see it on his radar, for me to see

it on my navigation screen ( and for everyone that thinks US datalinks are new things, F-106

had one ).

someone smart said "Yoda why don't you just do more work". Well my answer is, why dont

YOU start drawing a russian navigation and datalink display and we can have it as a module

for official LEAVU 2 release.

And why don't ED guys add this as part of the game?

because theyd need to reprogram the in game MFD to something functional.

That takes time, money and testing.

They chose one level of realism depth to program for, but intentionally made the game

moddable for users to make their own experience more fun

If I knew how to do this I'd probably be doing it already... there is already out that software for GCI/ATC... it too can be used in same way... do you consider it being unfair advantage if someone is using it and no one else knows?

...and yes I know you need someone else radar giving you picture... then again who's to say you will add only datalink for friendly radar... if GCI/ATC can do the same for all radars RED or BLUE who's to say you don't/won't do this also? This is why I think you've opened up new doors for cheating

If I knew how to do this I'd probably be doing it already... there is already out that software for GCI/ATC... it too can be used in same way... do you consider it being unfair advantage if someone is using it and no one else knows?

 

...and yes I know you need someone else radar giving you picture... then again who's to say you will add only datalink for friendly radar... if GCI/ATC can do the same for all radars RED or BLUE who's to say you don't/won't do this also? This is why I think you've opened up new doors for cheating

Because global lua exports are not used. They are off

I can only export "my data". And share this" my data" with others sharing

"their data".

The GCI/ATC mods work because they have set lockon with global exports on and they use

methods to get information on others than "self". Leavu can only acquire data on "self".

Seeing something that is not visible to your eyes or systems are seeing, or linked

through realistically implemented network can be a form of cheating.

"If I knew how to do this I'd probably be doing it already..." - ok....so then you dont see

anything wrong with this ?

I offer my mod to both sides and make graphics more oriented for one side, but anyone

can go in and add another graphics set to match russian setup more. If you paid me to work full

time on this I could provide more input into the project :)

Im surrounded by clever idiots :)

No doubt this will add to the package in FC2.0, Having said that if it can not be controlled "allow/deny server side" I will have to consider even purchasing FC2.0 as it will be a cluster "F" before it even starts.

ED consider this carefully as this could potentially hurt your revenue, who wants to purchase a new product with the old exporting issues we consider "unfair advantage" ?

A fair on-line experience is key for any sim/game ?

I dont see why I have any obligation to make all instrument panels for everyone else.

 

You have an obligation because by releasing this knowledge out in the public to try and justify you using this cheat, you now have to go someway to repairing the damage and mistrust you have now created for everybody by making it avaliable throughout lockon, and not just for your own and buddies selfish pursuits.

Ever watched Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility.

I really dont understand your post Frostie. I mean honestly, im not trying to make fun

of you. I just dont understand what you mean. Please elaborate.

I eagerly ( honest! ) await your answer.

No doubt this will add to the package in FC2.0, Having said that if it can not be controlled "allow/deny server side"

Like I said before I cannot deny or confirm any specifics about Fc2.0s server enforcing abilities.

They are however much more powerful than Fc 1.12. Maybe Wags has posted some details about this.

Yoda, if I knew how to do this I'd be doing it means I would code it etc but I would not be using it for myself... if I could do it I would intend for it to be part of the game. There's the ATC/GCI tool out already and we tried it out for a few flights... it is to easy to sneek up on enemy this way and we stopped using it as it is unfair.

51st had that GCI weekend which was great (sadly I did not take part) which increases realism also but again... how am I to know someone else is not using it when I join other servers as now pretty much any server has export lua enabled.

And reason I ask you to work on russian aircraft in parallel is same as Frostie said.. because by working on this for F-15 you are creating large unbalance in MP... and this is highly unfair and unethical... you want to have something for yourself and in turn you s***w other people gameplay... and you want to call yourself good and creating anti-cheats?

Ok, I've been looking at the source code of LEAVU and there is nothing in there that gives you information you don't have already. It just presents it in a different (more realistic for F15) way. Similar to how LockOn Virtual Panel did for the Russian birds.

That said if you wanted to cheat then LEAVU is not the way to do it. I have a Java program that can read TacView data in real time ('encrypted' or not) and project on a Google Map for my points scoring system. I choose not to use it when flying (which is obvious, my kill-to-death ain't so flash and the good pilots sneak up on me all the time) since using it would not be realistic.

My point is, LEAVU does not tip the balance in any way over what it possible, In fact, LEAVU is carefully designed to not allow cheating.

We've also been discussing adding a SOAP webservice interface to LEAVU that would make it easier for other developers to add Russian birds. Given the limited amount of time we have to develop this (we have real jobs/careers and it's just what we can squeeze in our limited spare time) the F15 is a realistic first goal - so there is no Western Imperialist Conspiracy to deny the fans of the Russian birds, it's just a matter of priorities of what we get done in our free time.

What are yuo on about Moa? LEAVU does not allow cheating? Does the game give abaility to see your friendlies radar picture? If not.. then LEAVU is a cheat because Yoda made it do exactly that... and what not else... what is wrong with you people... don't see a tree from forest?

You have an obligation because by releasing this knowledge out in the public to try and justify you using this cheat, you now have to go someway to repairing the damage and mistrust you have now created for everybody by making it avaliable throughout lockon, and not just for your own and buddies selfish pursuits.

Actually he is not obligated to do anything. If it is possible he can make "kill everything on map except me super duper hydrogen bomb" mod and he still won`t be obligated to repair anything. It`s called modding. If it can be done and it`s not forbidden he has the free will to do what he pleases.

It`s up to ED to stop cheating in the game, or server creators/admins, it`s not Yoda`s work to do that.

Yoda, if I knew how to do this I'd be doing it means I would code it etc but I would not be using it for myself... if I could do it I would intend for it to be part of the game. There's the ATC/GCI tool out already and we tried it out for a few flights... it is to easy to sneek up on enemy this way and we stopped using it as it is unfair.

 

51st had that GCI weekend which was great (sadly I did not take part) which increases realism also but again... how am I to know someone else is not using it when I join other servers as now pretty much any server has export lua enabled.

 

And reason I ask you to work on russian aircraft in parallel is same as Frostie said.. because by working on this for F-15 you are creating large unbalance in MP... and this is highly unfair and unethical... you want to have something for yourself and in turn you s***w other people gameplay... and you want to call yourself good and creating anti-cheats?

Don't know why you want to twist things so much Kuky.

It is quite logical.

I have X amount of hours to spare. I want all aircraft to have the possibility of

having external avionics dynamically implemented. So I create a program that can do this.

Then with my limited time I spend on a part which is for the most part oriented towards of the aircraft that I prefer to fly.

But it can still be used by all.

Just like any modder does. Some made a cockpit mod for french aircraft. They didnt make

a cockpit mod for Swedish aircraft, dispite some people liking those more.

I have zero obligations to you personally Kuky. The way you have acted, trashtalked and

insulted me directly and behind my back I don't even know why im reading your posts.

Get that straight. I chose to share my work of my own

free will in an effort for everyone to have as much fun as possible. You dont like it ?

Dont eat it. Its that simple. I'm so sick of this " Yoda you owe it to everyone to save the world, otherwise you are an a-hole" attitude. I have this many hours and i want to make

my own game more fun, and if I can make other people's game more fun also thats great.

Then i also leave a door open for the rest, but you have to get there and open it, i cannot

do everything for you.

The more BS you throw my way the less likely I am to try to make any sense of what you are saying.

If ED choses to implement a complete lua disable setting on the host. That is their decision. It is a conceptual

impossibility at this point ( at least to my brain capacity ) to think of a way to safely disable external avionics

panels and instruments, since I dont see a way to disable lua at this point. Now whether this will remain in FC2

we can only speculate and ask the devs. I wont remove something that in my eyes is 95% good just because this.

All constructive criticism and actual suggestions are warmly welcome. Trashtalking is not.

Also if you want to conribute to LEAVU that is very very very much welcome!

Glad I dont play online any more with all the "cheats" etc being exposed either by mistake or deliberate

Actually he is not obligated to do anything. If it is possible he can make "kill everything on map except me super duper hydrogen bomb" mod and he still won`t be obligated to repair anything. It`s called modding. If it can be done and it`s not forbidden he has the free will to do what he pleases.

It`s up to ED to stop cheating in the game, or server creators/admins, it`s not Yoda`s work to do that.

'He has the free will to do what he pleases'

Is this a freaking Kindergarten, how can you actually say that giving out a tool to see every player (unlimited players) that connects to this 3rd party server who then share their radar contacts 'live' with each other, a simple mod ffs.

Its a blatant cheat, not only does it show what a meddling smart individual can get upto after he's ripped Lockon to bits but also makes you wonder what else is possible and why is it being broadcast for the community to see so readily, this IS killing this game. I dread to think what wonders are being used already.

'

Its a blatant cheat, not only does it show what a meddling smart individual can get upto after he's ripped Lockon to bits but also makes you wonder what else is possible and why is it being broadcast for the community to see so readily, this IS killing this game. I dread to think what wonders are being used already.

Blatant cheat? Doesnt this do for the F15 what already is present on the Russian aircraft?

Sure, it modifies 'game balance' in the F15s favour but historically this is accurate (not all F15s had datalink in 1990 but a few did). A realistic game is not necessarily a 'balanced game', yeah?

'He has the free will to do what he pleases'

 

Is this a freaking Kindergarten, how can you actually say that giving out a tool to see every player (unlimited players) that connects to this 3rd party server who then share their radar contacts 'live' with each other, a simple mod ffs.

 

I`m saying it and I`m backing what I say with arguments. I repeat - he is not obligated by any means to do anything. He`s not doing it in realization of a contract nor what he does is forbidden. So tell me what exactly is imposing an obligation upon him?

Blatant cheat? Doesnt this do for the F15 what already is present on the Russian aircraft?

 

Sure, it modifies 'game balance' in the F15s favour but historically this is accurate (not all F15s had datalink in 1990 but a few did). A realistic game is not necessarily a 'balanced game', yeah?

Moa i'd be more than made up if it was a simple datalink like the Russian one using GCI or AWACS, but this is aircraft to aircraft, actually a whole squad of aircraft. The backlash from this in the community will be immense.

Other cool features I want is GCI controlling players radars to lock target, more specifically

for russian Su27s the GCI should be able to through datalink give them targets and set up

their radars.

Moa i'd be more than made up if it was a simple datalink like the Russian one using GCI or AWACS, but this is aircraft to aircraft, actually a whole squad of aircraft.

Yes I see your point. However, is this historically accurate or not? My understanding is that Swedish aircraft have been able to exchange contacts for a long time (they were the first IIRC). Western aircraft could also do it for a long time, as far as I know, but not all aircraft were fitted with it. These days Link-16 allows just about anything to give target data to anything else in the latest US/NATO gear (tested several months ago) - between infantry, hummers, tanks, choppers, aircraft, UAVs and ships.

F-104 had TADIL-A AFAIK, and pretty much all USAF interceptor aircraft have always had -something-, IIRC.

Yes I see your point. However, is this historically accurate or not? My understanding is that Swedish aircraft have been able to exchange contacts for a long time (they were the first IIRC). Western aircraft could also do it for a long time, as far as I know, but not all aircraft were fitted with it. These days Link-16 allows just about anything to give target data to anything else in the latest US/NATO gear (tested several months ago) - between infantry, hummers, tanks, choppers, aircraft, UAVs and ships.

Blatant cheat? Doesnt this do for the F15 what already is present on the Russian aircraft?

 

Sure, it modifies 'game balance' in the F15s favour but historically this is accurate (not all F15s had datalink in 1990 but a few did). A realistic game is not necessarily a 'balanced game', yeah?

Moa, nothing major: just that not all F-15s had the modern datalink in 1990, but a few did.

Before that there were other things ;). The more modern datalinks

are so crazy you can almost see the entire battlefield.

Leavu models older types.

I have this many hours and i want to make

my own game more fun, and if I can make other people's game more fun also thats great.

 

But dont push it on everyone PLEASE give people the option IF it's in FC 2

 

Now whether this will remain in FC2 we can only speculate.

Sounds like it's already implemented in FC2.O

 

All constructive criticism and actual suggestions are warmly welcome. Trashtalking is not.

Question:

Is there any way to make it obvious to anyone that this is being used during an MP Game online .... something like an antipop up if the server is using it.

Sorry if this has been asked before

Brum the thing is that as soon as leavu has acquired "my speed, my contacts and my position",

it does not rely on lockon or lockon server any more. It is completely standalone.

Sure we can make it tell lockon "im using this", but the problem is that it is open source,

if someone with bad intentions modifies it he can disable this notification. We are looking for

a solution to have server able to enforce no datalink or worst case, no lua. I will let you know

if we find such a solution.

LEAVU isnt part of FC2. FC 2 is by ED. LEAVU is by me/us.

Lockon is able to send this info like "my position, my contacts, my speed" to external applications

and files with a Lua script interface made by ED.