Gazelle change log

So criticism is attacking now?

Come on.

+1 NixNB

Can't call it a witch hunt if some folks point out deficiencies in the FM. Just be an adult and express your opinions in a constructive and mature manner, that's all...

Calling the Gazelle's FM a bunch of scripts is not very mature.

Criticism is not felt as an attack here.

Today I had 120 minutes of a phonecall and guess what. The resume of the phonecall was that the real SA342M is a lot easier to fly then what the DCS version is currently. But that is stuff we have to talk through on our side without the puplic for now, cause some stuff was even for me enlighting and still, even if a pilot tells me what she does or does not, people tend to think it is wrong. We had that before which is fin to me, but what I really do not like to see is that people start to fight in the Gazelle changelog topic about if this is a script or other stuff. That is why I wrote that we can have the admins open a threadwhere all can say what they want and fight with bloody noses, but I also have to add that we will not attand that fght, cause we have to adjust details now in the flightmodel and focus for a few more updates.

About calling it a witchhunt, well it was just a picture of how sometimes articles can be read from an outside perspectiv, which I always try to do to stay openminded for what is written.

Ohh and about th questions that were sent to the french ilots, 2 out of 11 cm from my side, the rest was driven by the community and thier observations. Some stuff was observed correct but other stuff had results I did not even expected. Let me tell you guys one little thing about the real Gazelle. It seems to be easier to fly then then we all think, but I hope people will soon understand and see the changes

Thanks a lot for beeing so open with us.

All my support and respect for you and the team.

Have you guys tried talking to civilian pilots?

I imagine they don't have to go through hoops just to say something :/

Have you guys tried talking to civilian pilots?

 

I imagine they don't have to go through hoops just to say something :/

They don't fly the Gazelle M nor L in the version we have in DCS :music_whistling:

But thanks for your open communication Polychop. Some other developers don't even reply to the community.

Let me tell you guys one little thing about the real Gazelle. It seems to be easier to fly then then we all think, but I hope people will soon understand and see the changes

That makes perfect sense to me. The easier a given vehicle is to control, the more effective it becomes in the pilots hands. And that has be something the designers, engineers, and test pilots have high on their list, when the given heli / plane is being developed.

Its a debate Im very familiar with from the sim racing side of things. Its as old as sim racing is. Many have the view that a race car cant be easy to drive, so when a simulated one is, then it cant be realistic. But they are only easy to drive to a certain point. Getting that last 0.5-1 sec out of it, thats where it separates the flock.

And in regards to the latest updates. Ive been flying the Gazelle exclusively this past week, when Ive had the chance to fly something, and Im really starting to enjoy it now. Not fired any weapons yet, Im just flapping about, in and out of hover, landing it in all kind of 'inviting' places. The last piece of the puzzle for me, was to set my picth/roll Y-saturation to 60. That made it feel linear to me, and it all really started clicking. And I can now fly it hands off, after trimming it a little for a given speed/alt.

Keep it coming, Polychops :thumbup:

Taking a look at the OP - the change logs. That's quite a few updates this month. Good to see some progress. Keep up the good work P-Chop. Hopefully things can keep moving forward.. and you guys can keep talking to pilots and perfecting your virtual aircraft baby.

The last piece of the puzzle for me, was to set my picth/roll Y-saturation to 60. That made it feel linear to me, and it all really started clicking. And I can now fly it hands off, after trimming it a little for a given speed/alt.

I have to say - this was mentioned to me many months back and I saw it on this forum again tonight.. and I went and tried it and I probably won't go back to using curves for the Gazelle. . Curves at 0 and Y Saturation at 50-60 YMMV on pitch/roll..it just feels better.

Sure...you lose some of the full range of your stick but.. I can't really think of a situation where I'd need all of it. It's still slightly touchy even at a Y Saturation of 50 on both pitch/roll axes. Coming into land, I find I have to remove my hand from the stick all together and just tap it with my finger tips to come down for a gentle landing if I can even manage that but for the most part.. she feels pretty wonderful not being so touchy. That and figuring out the difference in the force trim system compared to other helis in the game.. the Gazelle just became one of my favorite mods.

*edit* had to take back my statement about the Y saturation on pitch/roll axis. I'm using an msffb2, and adjusting the saturation does weird stuff to the trim. learning to be extra gentle and fly with no curves at all and 100 saturation.

The facts, not emotional outburst, reproduced for clarity.

Some Gazelle FM changes have been made, so here are my findings from before (1.5.7.101) and after (1.5.7.10872), testing, using a template I fly after every update.

Attitude - pitch /roll, 0/0, no SAS, no gyro, no trim, stick centered, rudder centered, flight straight and level, hands off.

..........................BEFORE............ AFTER

Speed @ 0 pitch = 69 kts...............65 kts

" , -1 deg. speed = 82 kts...............

" , -2 deg speed = 94kts................98 kts

" , -3 deg speed = 98 kts...............100 kts

" , -4 deg speed = 106 kts.............109 kts

" , -5 deg speed = 114 kts.............111 kts

BEFORE

Direction, pitch/bank, will remain constant, even if you pull collective repeatedly, top to bottom. Rudder not used at any time. All conditions remaining the same.

AFTER

Collective down will produce a roll to the right. Collective up, a roll to the left, but used gently, no roll is produced and direction pitch/bank remain the same.

Collective dropped quickly top to bottom at high speed and a complete 360 roll is produced, engine might cut out, recover upright and do an auto-rotation with no damage.

INVERTED FLIGHT

Before.

Roll inverted @ 10,000', perform left and right rudder turns, 360 left and right rolls, forward and backward loops, hands off stable descent to 1,000' and land normal without damage.

After.

All the same except engine cuts soon after becoming inverted and an auto rotation is performed without damage.

TRANSLATIONAL LIFT

Lift off and accelerate to 60 kts in a straight line without using the cyclic or trim.

None detected, before or after. Roll/bank remain constant at 0/0.

Lift off, travel to a rooftop, land, lift off and travel back to starting point, without using cyclic or trim.

Before and after, same.

Hover at 1,000', drop collective fully and rapidly, descend vertically, needle off clock, at 10' pull collective and land without using stick (or with stick, if you prefer).

Before and after, same.

That's the story so far.

No conclusions are drawn.

..

Conclusion.

No SAS, no gyro, no trim, stick centered, rudder centered, flight straight and level, hands off.

The only change I found with the updated FM so far, is with this rather curious rock and roll effect that the collective has. Down will produce a roll to the right and up, a roll to the left, if done fast enough.

If you travel S&L at a fast speed and lower the collective with all controls centered, a complete 360 deg roll will occur, level off, add power, then carry on.

If at the 180 deg point you raise the collective slightly, you will now be in a stable inverted condition. The engine will cut out, but you will have full control including hands off. Not of much practical use, but what we don't want is one more method to perform an unnatural act.

Roll or loop upright, then perform an autorotation and land without further damage.

..

Just had a chance to try the latest tweaks in 2.1.1.x and the improvements feel great. :thumbup:

The new update made some real improvement to the blurry nature of the Gazelle during forward flight, still i find the Gazelle overreacting during hover flight. Unlike what i'm used to in real life, where the aircraft is doing what you're asking, the virtual Gazelle is always continuing a little bit after you stopped your input.

In reality, aircrafts are always more precise than what you can find on sims. There's less inertial component to turns & bank angles. That may be the only thing i'd have to criticize about almost every virtual aircraft (except Dreamfoil B407).

The new update made some real improvement to the blurry nature of the Gazelle during forward flight, still i find the Gazelle overreacting during hover flight. Unlike what i'm used to in real life, where the aircraft is doing what you're asking, the virtual Gazelle is always continuing a little bit after you stopped your input.

I would have to disagree if you have the same ver 2.1.x I'm impressed with the way it handles just throwing it around, IGE, it just feels stable actually it just seems to feel the way the Huey and Mi8 just feel. I find less input can be more with Helis the Gazelle especially. :pilotfly:

In reality, aircrafts are always more precise than what you can find on sims. There's less inertial component to turns & bank angles. That may be the only thing i'd have to criticize about almost every virtual aircraft (except Dreamfoil B407).

Or in DCS you can throw any Heli around and not really care about the outcome. :D

On a serous note I actually broke a Gazelle and died tonight bugger. :P First time in a while. However it was another invisible map feature in NTTR map. :cry:

I haven't tried any of the other stuff out yet, been busy flying. :thumbup:

Any updates on 1.5 beta today? I finally made the jump to standalone.

Any updates on 1.5 beta today? I finally made the jump to standalone.

No 1.5 update today.

No 1.5 update today.

A huge update next weekend then ;)

update to 2.1.1 today

A huge update next weekend then ;)

no HUGE update today (180MB) but the Gazelle changes made it into this release :thumbup:

You can easily check if you are up to date: hover right skid low, skid cushion on touch down etc.

Enjoy.

@docWilly ...are you talking about new changes to the FM for 1.5.7 or do you mean that 1.5.7 received all the FM goodies that came with the last 2.1.1 patch? I just updated and on a fast glance it feels pretty much the same like 2.1.1.

I suposse now 1.5.7 is on par with 2.1.1.

Had a go now and it feels alot nicer to fly now more organic and predictable. Only thing weird is ground effect hover which is very high now, say 70% torque and it settles in a hover really high above ground. A little less torque and it wants to go down to land not to settle closer to the ground, seems on/off with ground effect. But flying is more fun :thumbup:

So I have tried both 2.1 and 1.5.7 in single player and I am happy to say that the persistent sound after death is no longer happening.

I will try it out in multiplayer sometime to confirm if it has been resolved in multiplayer.

Hi Gents

First post edited

1.5.8 open beta version has been commited right now, it should be updated soon.

Thanks.

Hi Gents

 

First post edited

1.5.8 open beta version has been commited right now, it should be updated soon.

 

Thanks.

That is great ! :D Thank you for the update.