What monitor/resolution should I be looking at?

Hey everyone,

I'm planning a PC build for DCS, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what monitor, size, resolution, etc. I should expect out of a system based on my component choices. This is my first time building a PC.

Here's what I'm thinking for the main components:

- i5-9600k

- Some form of Z390 MoBo, probably an MSI MPG Pro Carbon or MSI MEG ACE.

- 32 GB of 3200 RAM

- RTX 2080

I don't plan on VR immediately. I would plan some upgrades down the road for that once VR tech advances a little more. I'll plan on TrackIR for sure.

I was thinking about a larger monitor, maybe 32" or so, and I kinda like how the curved screens look. Also plan on 144 Hz.

What capabilities would this machine have in DCS?

Thanks!

Sort of in the same boat, I like to hop on your thread.

So far:

my specs are not as powerful as yours:

old i2500K @4.2GHz, 16Gb ram

recently upgraded to GeForce 1080

and for the monitor I'am long time very happy with my Samsung 27" 2560x1440, 60Hz

Having 1440 lines resolution I get good pictures with MSAA set to 2x only.

Imho the higher the resolution of the display the less you have trouble with AA, coz the pixels are so much smaller. Therefore I would not go lower then 1440, imho 1080 is somewhat obsolete for this reason.

And actually this is one part beside others why I personally not that much interested in VR. (is there vr with better than 1080 meanwhile?)

But then there are these UWQHD displays getting affordable nowadays.

So with that 2080 you plan I don't see any problems using such a display.

I doubt that you need 144Hz in DCS in general, everything top of 60Hz is far north of being needed. Of course the whole visual perception thing is a very individual one.

Iirc nVidia made these free sync monitors compatible with one of their latest drivers so the whole issue of tearing/flickering gets much better anyways.

Actually this is the reason I begun to look for information for a new monitor myself. I do not get 60Hz at all times with my settings (2x MSAA, less is pita imho but more is not really needed on 1440)

And every time the frames drop below and vsync does not fit anymore the whole stuttering/tearing appears with free sync it should be much less of a problem. DCS can go down to 30ies, I don't play it like BF or other pvp shooters. As far as there occurs no stuttering/tearing 30+ frames are ok.

Old movies in theaters are displayed 25picutres a second? You get what I mean.

How fast can one tune this 9600K with aircooler?

Until now I was happy with my 2500k running at 4.2GHz without any problems air-cooled. But now with my new 1080 I think it is becoming the bottleneck. Testing this atm.

With your planned rig and UWQHD monitor +TrackIr you should have a super nice experience.

Hekktor, thank you for taking the time to respond! It's certainly confusing trying to figure out the best avenue to take. 1440p is where I was leaning, so sounds like I'm on the right track. It sounds like 144 Hz benefits the FPS games more then, is that right? I do plan on putting games like the Battlefield series on, but this will ultimately be designed for DCS and BMS.

As far as the 9600K goes, I chose it as it seems to deliver fast performance for a bargain. Since games don't seem to take advantage of higher cores (yet), I figured this would be good for now. I wanted a nice MoBo so I could add a better CPU in the future if the games take advantage of them. However, this is all still really new to me. I've learned an awful lot in the last few weeks, but I still feel like I don't know anything sometimes, lol!

I still feel like I don't know anything sometimes, lol!

Don't we all !

One factor you may wish to consider regarding monitor refresh rate is TrackIr . For smooth panning in DCS , it requires sync rates of 30 , 60 , or 120 hz . This can be a little difficult to achieve for gsync or fixed high-refresh rate monitors , with a lot of conflicting advice .

On the other hand , with a 60hz monitor , check "vsync" in the DCS settings and you're done .

The lessor frames let you crank-up the eye-candy settings as well .

Some have said that some TrackIr alternatives don't require the fixed frames . I have no experience with these .

This thread discusses issues with TrackIr and non-60hz monitors .

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=229871

As I said, I am/was happy with my samsung 2560x1440 (= 3.7 million Pixels)

Now I just ordered that LG 38UC99-W 21:9 3840x1600 (= 6.14)

But this might blow up my system. Also the compatibility to other more casual games. DCS as a flight sim almost supports every screen res (or multi screen stuff) casual console adapted game might not but stick to the standard 16:9.

I will tell of my experience - maybe I'll end up with a new comp running DCS only... :)

What I don't like so much in general is that with DCS 2.5 new rendering system (?) (Deferred Shading ?) the whole thing in general became much more hardware hungry. Obviously you can't get that much better visuals without a drawback. And I have to admit that the whole thing got to a point where it is almost unbelievable good. Especially when you started the whole sim thing in the 80ies :)

Then again, I think it is absolutely possible to get down each and any hardware available for money atm.

With your modern cpu at around 4Ghz and especially 32Gb not so much. But than again, just throw more units shooting all kinds of stuff at each other and the CPU will become stuff to do. Hard to benchmark.

And graphic settings - I am not a guru so it took me long time to find out, that MSAA takes WAY LESS power than SSAA - if you know the difference of the to AA methods it is obvious. So switching SSAA off and MSAA just at 2 gives me enough power that I can put vSync to 60Hz for my samsung monitor (no g sync). Where having the monitor out of sync is causing stutter and tearing even if I have +40 frames (what is obvious if you know the dependencies)

It would be nice if we could have a better explanation of the graphics setting especially which setting has how much of an impact on CPU and GPU.

At the moment by taking quite a lot of time I am somewhat happy with my results. Then again from time to time I'd like to know better in what situation I can turn down what setting to get more frames.

Or get that new computer, like you are atm :)

I2500K even at 4.2GHz might have become to it's age.

Don't we all !

 

One factor you may wish to consider regarding monitor refresh rate is TrackIr . For smooth panning in DCS , it requires sync rates of 30 , 60 , or 120 hz . This can be a little difficult to achieve for gsync or fixed high-refresh rate monitors , with a lot of conflicting advice .

On the other hand , with a 60hz monitor , check "vsync" in the DCS settings and you're done .

The lessor frames let you crank-up the eye-candy settings as well .

 

Some have said that some TrackIr alternatives don't require the fixed frames . I have no experience with these .

This thread discusses issues with TrackIr and non-60hz monitors .

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=229871

Man, I'm glad I posed this question to you guys because I'm finding out a lot of new stuff! I would've been so mad at myself to have bought a 144hz monitor only to find it doesn't work well with TrackIR.

I'll browse through that thread you posted. Thanks for sharing that!

As I said, I am/was happy with my samsung 2560x1440 (= 3.7 million Pixels)

 

Now I just ordered that LG 38UC99-W 21:9 3840x1600 (= 6.14)

 

But this might blow up my system. Also the compatibility to other more casual games. DCS as a flight sim almost supports every screen res (or multi screen stuff) casual console adapted game might not but stick to the standard 16:9.

I will tell of my experience - maybe I'll end up with a new comp running DCS only... :)

 

 

What I don't like so much in general is that with DCS 2.5 new rendering system (?) (Deferred Shading ?) the whole thing in general became much more hardware hungry. Obviously you can't get that much better visuals without a drawback. And I have to admit that the whole thing got to a point where it is almost unbelievable good. Especially when you started the whole sim thing in the 80ies :)

 

 

Then again, I think it is absolutely possible to get down each and any hardware available for money atm.

With your modern cpu at around 4Ghz and especially 32Gb not so much. But than again, just throw more units shooting all kinds of stuff at each other and the CPU will become stuff to do. Hard to benchmark.

 

 

And graphic settings - I am not a guru so it took me long time to find out, that MSAA takes WAY LESS power than SSAA - if you know the difference of the to AA methods it is obvious. So switching SSAA off and MSAA just at 2 gives me enough power that I can put vSync to 60Hz for my samsung monitor (no g sync). Where having the monitor out of sync is causing stutter and tearing even if I have +40 frames (what is obvious if you know the dependencies)

It would be nice if we could have a better explanation of the graphics setting especially which setting has how much of an impact on CPU and GPU.

At the moment by taking quite a lot of time I am somewhat happy with my results. Then again from time to time I'd like to know better in what situation I can turn down what setting to get more frames.

 

 

Or get that new computer, like you are atm :)

I2500K even at 4.2GHz might have become to it's age.

Let me know how you like that new monitor! I'm going to look at both monitors you posted, thanks. :thumbup:

ETA: Wow, that LG looks amazing! I'm afraid my wife would shoot me if I spent that much on it though, haha.

Ok, let me ask you guys this:

Are all monitors adjustable to their refresh rate? Are they all fixed? If some are fixed and some are adjustable, how will I know that when shopping for them?

Reading about the TrackIR issues got me wondering.

I will.

Just read that TrackIR thread and I don't get it. Posted a question there.

Don't see why TrackIR would need 60Hz. But this is to find out in this other thread.

Point is the whole thing is megacomplex and therefore alot of ppl do alot of things they think are right.

Few do sorow testing, have decent knowlege of the topic they are writing about. I do not know much more but I try not to write stuff I am not very sure about - even then I do mistakes when I 'think' I have understood the matter. Unless it is tested in depth you can almost forget it most of the times.

Actually this is what I hate most atm. A good wiki would be nice. Where articles can be verified and tested by as many as possible and than put online.

Especially when ppl start using nVidia Inspector. This thing is doing stuff down the pipe I don't get. There is almost no documentation.

They are not!

It just happened that nVidia made it's method - G sync compatible to amd's free sync. Or the other way round - made free sync monitors compatible to 10xx and 20xx graphics cards as long as the monitor is using display port (?) or hdmi 2.1 -which even the newes still dont use, so hdmi doesn't work with free sync monitors.

So G sync monitor might still be the better option to partner with nVidia card if you want to use this syncing method.

From my personal experience/testing I belive it is importand to have a stutter/tearing free experience.

And that LG despite not beeing cheap does not have g sync, but free sync so yes, I am gambling to get this to work since I am almost sure with my rig I will not get it to deliver 60frames to match 60Hz constant.

Atm I could better live with a 30 frames / Hz synced situation than having 100+ frames unsynced.

TrackIr issue has been well-documented , and discussed in numerous threads . For a butter-smooth experience in DCS , check Vsync (60 hz monitor) and adjust your graphics settings so you don't break vsync in your own worst-case scenario . For example , I test my settings (very) low over Vegas , monitoring via Afterburner , and have my graphics settings adjusted to leave 12-15 % headroom on CPU & GPU .

They mixed FPS of the TrackIR camera sample rate with graphics card fps.

Four pages of nonsense.

No , just a big cluster trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist on a 60 hz monitor .

But getting graphics card output matched vsnced to monitor refresh rate is of importance with all LED monitors. Was not an issue with older CRT monitors.

Usually anything north of 30frames would be enough for a normal human not beening able to get single pictures faster than 25per second.

Actually the speed most films had been shown in the movies, roughly 25pic/sec

But a led with that low refresh would flicker, so you need a higher refresh rate. 60Hz is common.

Yes , and 60hz works well with TIR . That thread was discussing variable-refresh-rate monitors (gsync and freesync) which do offer advantages to competitive fps gamers , but which must be locked to 60 (or 30) frames for smooth trackir usage .

That's why i say get a 60hz monitor , and avoid all that .

TrackIR works even well with 25Hz CRT. As I wrote in the other thread, TrackIRs 120FPS sample rate has nothing to do with the graphics card output to the monitor.

I see no point in discussing this further . You are right , and everyone else on the planet is wrong .

Everyone else on the planet???

If you mean 85% of the internet, then yes. Copying mistakes 1000times at no cost does not make a mistake come true.

Well at least that used to be the case. But the fact that copying or writing nonsense does not cost anymore, no time, no nothing doesn't make it better. This is where we are today.

You have a hard time to prove 'the world' that they just copy a mistake.

Ppl like to stay what they belive in first time. This is human behaviour.

We're talking about reproducible results , by anyone who takes the trouble to test them . That is about as far removed from your internet observation as possible .

But this is the other thread.

That sync of monitor and graphics card is an issue. To reach 60fps to match the monitors 60Hz can be difficult. This is why the got this gsync/free sync, that you can match it lower than 60fps/Hz.

We just need 25pictures / second. IF the rest is smooth.

But there are these nasty interferene effects of stutter/tear if the ordinary monitors 60Hz frequency doesn't match what the card is able to throw at it. If the card can put out more frames - it is easy - sync it by limiting what the card can achive to 60frames/Hz.

If the card can not deliver 60frames/s, one could go down to 30frames/s and sync it to 60Hz, same frame 2x at the monitor, wich still can run at 60Hz.

Something like this.

I will report my experience when I get this widescreen...

Belive me, I am testing alot. But lets discuss it in the thread you linked.

This is for the monitor question.

TrackIR is another thing. Input device. Monitor is output.. -.-

Belive me, I am testing alot. But lets discuss it in the thread you linked.

This is for the monitor question.

 

TrackIR is another thing. Input device. Monitor is output.. -.-

Clearly , that would be no more productive than this conversation . Auf weidersein .

Well, what is productive or not for you is your personal opinion.

I just wanted to tell the opener of this thread, that the link you posted contains inconsistencies regarding the TrackIR sample rate in reference of the syncing of a graphics card output to the monitor refresh rate.

The matter we are discussing here is complex enough. To find a good match between a modern graphics card and monitor is complex enough.

Now you came with that TrackIR thing, what - as I stated in the thread you thrown in her, has nothing to do with what we do discuss in here.

Plz keep it simple.

That is not to say that if you want, and I do highly recommend it, use TrackIR, need a decend graphic card. But this is because when you use TrackIR you will change your view almost all time what causes the graphics card a lot of work.

But it has nothing to do with the TrackIR sample rate of 120 camera pictures per second.

It is just unlucky wording in the advertisement of TrackIR that they use the term 'FPS' to describe what the ir camera is able to deliver to the track IR software to determine the head position.

And that information I do belive is productive.

Yes , and 60hz works well with TIR . That thread was discussing variable-refresh-rate monitors (gsync and freesync) which do offer advantages to competitive fps gamers , but which must be locked to 60 (or 30) frames for smooth trackir usage .

That's why i say get a 60hz monitor , and avoid all that .

There is some truth to this.

You can come along with a 2-giga-trillion Hertz refresh rate, IN THE END, you will lock it at 60 fps if you use Natural Points Track-IR device, due to it's hardware restrictions.

Yes, for anything else a 144Hz or 166Hz or even 240Hz may make sense, but for NOW and the forseeable future, if you use TiR, stick to 60Hz.

Thanks for the discussion, guys. Sounds like I'll be looking at 60Hz then!