The Gazelle's Maneuverability

First of all, thanks for the module, Polychop. Keep it up!

Ever since the Helicopters Tournaments were launched (https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=469), many players including myself have been noticing the incredible maneuverability of the Gazelle! Whether it's fully loaded with missiles/rockets or not, the way that bird turns around the opponent in a "helicopters dogfight" and pulls crazy stunts seems to be a bit too much; maybe more like an arcade mode. This is not me trying to bash the module, but merely sharing an observation many seem to have noticed.

I've watched many real Gazelle videos just to be sure and it turns out that bird is really maneuverable, but never like it is in DCS. You can watch 104th_Maverick's streaming videos of the events on his youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrO8sHQ6LyYaXTikpLHjSmA and see how the Gazelles fly around so easily like a feather in the wind, especially in round 4.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. I just want to be sure, is all :thumbup:

Good question, the DCS Gazelle is a great aerobatic helicopter it can do rolls and loops it will also kill you if blink at the wrong time. ;) And yes there are videos of the real thing. Having said that it's comparatively light compared to even the Huey let alone the mass of KA-50 or Mi-8 I find all of the helicopters are agile in their own way.

:megalol:

Good question, the DCS Gazelle is a great aerobatic helicopter it can do rolls and loops it will also kill you if blink at the wrong time. ;) And yes there are videos of the real thing. Having said that it's comparatively light compared to even the Huey let alone the mass of KA-50 or Mi-8 I find all of the helicopters are agile in their own way.

You are completely right, gazelle is around 1000 kgs and Huey is around 4000 kgs. It's the first light helicopter in DCS, we will have to wait to ED to bring us something similar to compare. Anyway, PC is improving their FMs for the next proyect and will afffect gazelle too!

I don't really know. For some reason the Gazelle feels to have non-pendelimum flight characteristics and turn like on rails.

That's because of SAS

I don't really know. For some reason the Gazelle feels to have non-pendelimum flight characteristics and turn like on rails.

One thing that killed Gazelle control for me was using a desk top joystick it doesn't work for me on any of the helicopters and doubly so for the Gazelle cyclic input.

I have for all intents a cyclic (no return springs or centering) with a 25cm extension and that makes a tremendous difference for al helicopters.

As for pendulum it works fine just don't try an correct everything correct only what needs to be corrected.

Oh and the Gazelle is about 1600KG with an MTOW of just over 2100KG an R44 is about 1000KG ;) :thumbup:

@Fri13:

I may have to ask here, cause I am not sure what you expect. You expect it to behave like the Huey or even the MI8 in terms of the pendulum effect of an underslung rotor like the Huey ?

Am I getting your part there correct ?

As soon I know what you are expecting, or which reference you are using, I can try to give you an answer.

I love the Gazelle, but what puzzles me every time I fly it is its inconsistent behaviour. Sometimes it sinks fine at speed and 0 collective, but sometimes, at similar speeds, it won't leave the altitude (0 collective). Sometimes I need to counter with pedals, but SUDDENLY I decelerate under some set airspeed, and I need to compensate a lot. There's no "flow" to the transitions - it makes it hard to predict at times. Maybe it's because of some stabilization system? (seems weird to set it up like that though).

Also, the turns one can make in it are insane :P Feels like the G-forces would be insane in some of the maneuvers I pull off, but the pilot doesn't even blink.

Good question, the DCS Gazelle is a great aerobatic helicopter it can do rolls and loops it will also kill you if blink at the wrong time. ;) And yes there are videos of the real thing. Having said that it's comparatively light compared to even the Huey let alone the mass of KA-50 or Mi-8 I find all of the helicopters are agile in their own way.

True that. Watching the streams from the heli tourney I'm sometimes amazed how agile the Ka-50 and Mi-8 can be in the hands of an experienced pilot!

A bit back I just casually tried to do a split-s in the Gazelle and pulled its rotor apart. Happens now and then - to me more often than with any other helicopter, maybe because I'm much more careful with them while I always try to push the Gazelle over its (maybe extreme) limits.

So it's not completely like a RC aircraft (though often it feels a bit like that - the flight stabilization is so good?). Going to be interesting how the new flight model turns out, PC has implied it will be much more challenging...

Just a quick note (without commenting the Gazelle itself): The stream doesn't seem to be the most reliable thing to judge what is actually happening. I've noticed that due to latency DCS engine seems to sometimes "interpolate" movements somewhat suspiciously.

For example in Helicopter Tournament 3 stream you can see me what looks like a loop in the stream, while no such thing happens if you look at the view from my client side.

If you compare this:

To this:

The flying on the stream seems quite different, dare I say more "arcadish", than it looks from my perspective.

P.s. The tournaments have been a blast! :)

Just a quick note (without commenting the Gazelle itself): The stream doesn't seem to be the most reliable thing to judge what is actually happening. I've noticed that due to latency DCS engine seems to sometimes "interpolate" movements somewhat suspiciously.

 

For example in Helicopter Tournament 3 stream you can see me what looks like a loop in the stream, while no such thing happens if you look at the view from my client side.

 

If you compare this:

To this:

 

The flying on the stream seems quite different, dare I say more "arcadish", than it looks from my perspective.

 

P.s. The tournaments have been a blast! :)

Nice example of the netcode!

I dunno, I've got all the choppers, they all feel different, but they are all very different choppers. Flying the Mi-8 is like flying a clunky washing machine. thee huey is what I might "expect" a helicopter to fly like. The gazelle is super nimble, its like 1/4 the weight of the huey and has about 2 fold the power to weight ratio. As for the "on rails" effect, I get what people mean relative to the other choppers, but having never flown any of them I'm not gonna stand around claiming one is more right than another.

I dunno, I've got all the choppers, they all feel different, but they are all very different choppers. Flying the Mi-8 is like flying a clunky washing machine. thee huey is what I might "expect" a helicopter to fly like. The gazelle is super nimble, its like 1/4 the weight of the huey and has about 2 fold the power to weight ratio. As for the "on rails" effect, I get what people mean relative to the other choppers, but having never flown any of them I'm not gonna stand around claiming one is more right than another.

Starting by the other helos doesn't have SAS system, your statement makes you honorable. Specially

but having never flown any of them I'm not gonna stand around claiming one is more right than another.

Good inputs here. Just to be sure, guys, I was never comparing the Gazelle to the other modules. That'd be highly naive and inaccurate. I was only refering to real Gazelle videos and comparing those to what we have in DCS.

If only we had a real Gazelle pilot to comment on that?

Good inputs here. Just to be sure, guys, I was never comparing the Gazelle to the other modules. That'd be highly naive and inaccurate. I was only refering to real Gazelle videos and comparing those to what we have in DCS.

 

If only we had a real Gazelle pilot to comment on that?

One guy was here, and reported everything he thought was incorrect.

One guy was here, and reported everything he thought was incorrect.

You mean a real Gazelle pilot? Who?

I bought all the choppers earlier this fall (remember the all in one chopper sales):

- I fell in love with the Huey, what a fantastic module!

- I love the KA-50 as well, but can`t wait to see it updated.

- I did not jumped in the Mi8 yet, but heard it is quite good. I have it brand new in my virtual hangar, waiting for me to discover it.

However, I never liked the Gazelle after flying it few times. It feels arcadish and something that you would fly in Arma. If someone tells me that it REALLY fly that easily I would give it another chance. But for me, it felt that the flight model was under developed. But I am not a gazelle pilot, so if someone tells me that the Gazelle flight model is precise, I will be STRONGLY impressed by this chopper and will jump back in it.

I will follow that thread closely!

I bought all the choppers earlier this fall (remember the all in one chopper sales):

 

- I fell in love with the Huey, what a fantastic module!

- I love the KA-50 as well, but can`t wait to see it updated.

- I did not jumped in the Mi8 yet, but heard it is quite good. I have it brand new in my virtual hangar, waiting for me to discover it.

 

However, I never liked the Gazelle after flying it few times. It feels arcadish and something that you would fly in Arma. If someone tells me that it REALLY fly that easily I would give it another chance. But for me, it felt that the flight model was under developed. But I am not a gazelle pilot, so if someone tells me that the Gazelle flight model is precise, I will be STRONGLY impressed by this chopper and will jump back in it.

 

I will follow that thread closely!

Yeah they all grow on you as you learn.

You mean a real Gazelle pilot? Who?

Happened around 3 months or so, I can't remember the name. He reported and the team listened to him.

I bought all the choppers earlier this fall (remember the all in one chopper sales):

 

- I fell in love with the Huey, what a fantastic module!

- I love the KA-50 as well, but can`t wait to see it updated.

- I did not jumped in the Mi8 yet, but heard it is quite good. I have it brand new in my virtual hangar, waiting for me to discover it.

 

However, I never liked the Gazelle after flying it few times. It feels arcadish and something that you would fly in Arma. If someone tells me that it REALLY fly that easily I would give it another chance. But for me, it felt that the flight model was under developed. But I am not a gazelle pilot, so if someone tells me that the Gazelle flight model is precise, I will be STRONGLY impressed by this chopper and will jump back in it.

 

I will follow that thread closely!

Remember gazelle is the only helicopter in DCS with SAS. Try to fly helicopters in X-plane with SAS and you will see its quite easy! Difficult doesn't mean realistic.

Remember gazelle is the only helicopter in DCS with SAS. Try to fly helicopters in X-plane with SAS and you will see its quite easy! Difficult doesn't mean realistic.

That is indeed a possibility (SAS). But let's not take XP 11 as a reference. Most of the choppers in there are not what a I would consider a reference as far as flight model goes.

Would really like the input of a Gazelle pilot if we can find one :)

That is indeed a possibility (SAS). But let's not take XP 11 as a reference. Most of the choppers in there are not what a I would consider a reference as far as flight model goes.

 

Would really like the input of a Gazelle pilot if we can find one :)

You are wrong there. The considered most near to FM is the Bell 407 in all sim for helos!:pilotfly::pilotfly::pilotfly:

Happened around 3 months or so, I can't remember the name. He reported and the team listened to him.

Are you referring to Damcopter?? patiently waiting to see updates. :thumbup: :D

You are wrong there. The considered most near to FM is the Bell 407 in all sim for helos!:pilotfly::pilotfly::pilotfly:

Good hint. I will check this this one out! I also play XP11 but never tried that specific one. That is good news since I like that chopper!

Why would be we here if not for flying copters? :P