P51D gun effectiveness (against ground targets) - ED Forums
 


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Old 04-14-2019, 11:10 AM   #1
davidtsw
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Default P51D gun effectiveness (against ground targets)

So I recently bought the P51D. I was supposed to wait for the summer sale but since I already got Normandy and the assets, I figured I need something that can shoot. Flying around in the free, unarmed Mustang gets old quickly

Overall I'm very happy with the plane. I don't have a HOTAS setup yet so I was worried flying it with the keyboard might not work well, but it's surprisingly easy.

However, there is something I noticed when attacking ground targets. I haven't tried any A2A action with the Mustang yet so I don't know if that's any better, but it seems that the cannons/machine guns are not very effective against ground targets. I expected them to absolutely tear apart soft targets like infantry or trucks and light armor but it's not the case. I was attacking some targets watching the real time damage thing and it looks like:

a) when attacking that lightly armored mechanized truck with a MG, it literally does 1% of damage for each round landing on target. My aiming might not be the best but I've landed quite a few shots on target and was only able to cause around 30% of damage after a couple of passes

b) with unarmed trucks it's more effective obviously but still seems like around 15% each time I hit the target. Wouldn't these cannon be able to severely damage a truck faster in real life ?

c) with infantry I'm not quite sure what would be realistic. I guess a direct hit is needed to cause damage, right? And then 1 round should obviously be enough to kill an infantryman.

Or am I doing something wrong ?

P.S. I assume that not every round is a tracer, right ? Any idea about what the ratio of tracers/normal rounds is ?

I don't wanna start another discussion on the damage model itself. We all know it needs to be improved and a vehicle damaged in 80% shouldn't be able to operate normally and should probably be immobilized and/or unable to shoot with visible damage on the model.

Last edited by davidtsw; 04-14-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 04-14-2019, 11:29 AM   #2
razo+r
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b) with unarmed trucks it's more effective obviously but still seems like around 15% each time I hit the target. Wouldn't these cannon be able to severely damage a truck faster in real life ?

Depends. If you always hit the tires, you wouldn't do much damage would you? So it obviously depends where you hit. But of course, if you hit the engine, it looks different.

And once the healthbar is low, the vehicles are limited in some aspects. For example, they drive slower than usual. But that's about all that I could see...
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Old 04-14-2019, 12:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Depends. If you always hit the tires, you wouldn't do much damage would you? So it obviously depends where you hit. But of course, if you hit the engine, it looks different.
But is this simulated with the current damage model ? I haven't noticed any variations in how fast I can destroy a truck.

On the other hand, it seems that the guns are very effective against trains, both locomotives and carriages. I might be wrong but it doesn't seem to be right. A locomotive shouldn't be easier to destroy than a truck I think.
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:02 PM   #4
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Unfortunately damage model of ground units is something with the lowest quality in DCS W.

3 kinds of ground targets are here...

1st lights, you need "only one bullet" hit to kill it, they are trucks, trains, some AAA ..
2nd medium, short direct burst kill them, APCs, btw. SAU Msta and so on, but not M12 Gun Motor Carriage ..
3rd hard, these are tanks, M12, etc. "undestroyable" with guns, you can kill them only with direct bomb hit ..

That is way how do i divide them according to my experience.
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:10 PM   #5
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Everything is destroyable by guns. The Vehicles have some sort of damage multiplier depending on where you hit. So if you shoot an Abrams with an AK, it is possible to destroy it, you just need enough bullets to do so.

And no David, the example you quoted was more directed to real life.
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Old 04-14-2019, 06:22 PM   #6
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p-51 dont have cannos small fix. it has 6 x 50cal MGs 12.7mm
and it would completly obliterate truck 6 of those mgs actualy are very powerfull high muzzle velocity good accuracy
i think everything up to light armored vechicles would be obliterated
remebe that bullets actualy have added velocity becouse of airplane velocity so bullets from thos mgs would exeed stacionary armor pearcing tests
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Old 04-21-2019, 09:48 PM   #7
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I'm still not sure how the current damage model works. Does it take into account where a vehicle is it ? The velocity of the rounds when hitting the target ?

Still torturing the Kfz 251 According to wiki its armor was 6-14.5 mm thick. Shouldn't 0.50 cal rounds, especially fired from a plane travelling at 600 km/h further increasing the muzzle velocity of the rounds, have no problems at all destroying this APC ? Cause what I'm seeing is that a very long and accurate burst is needed to severely damage the 251 and destroying it in one run is almost impossible.

The current damage model might be better than I think it is and take into account things like the distance to the target and the angle at which the rounds hit. Or it might be so bad that it needs xx rounds to destroy a certain type of a vehicle regardless of all the other factors.

Does anyone know for sure how it works ?
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidtsw View Post
I'm still not sure how the current damage model works. Does it take into account where a vehicle is it ? The velocity of the rounds when hitting the target ?

Still torturing the Kfz 251 According to wiki its armor was 6-14.5 mm thick. Shouldn't 0.50 cal rounds, especially fired from a plane travelling at 600 km/h further increasing the muzzle velocity of the rounds, have no problems at all destroying this APC ? Cause what I'm seeing is that a very long and accurate burst is needed to severely damage the 251 and destroying it in one run is almost impossible.

The current damage model might be better than I think it is and take into account things like the distance to the target and the angle at which the rounds hit. Or it might be so bad that it needs xx rounds to destroy a certain type of a vehicle regardless of all the other factors.

Does anyone know for sure how it works ?
DM model for vehicles is very simply. but 0.5 cal ammo aspecialy AP rounds shoudl have no problem abliterate this kfz251
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:36 AM   #9
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The "Visual" damage model has two modes:
1) Alive
2) Dead

But, there is an underlying damage model that you can see if you turn on the health icons on the F10 map. In addition, units will show degraded performance as they accrue damage. eg Tanks will slow down and fall out of formation as well as shoot less frequently than their healthy counterparts.

Unfortunately, we can't see thrown tracks, bent gun barrels, smoking engines, stunned or wounded crew, etc. that would be visual clues that something is damaged.
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmy View Post
The "Visual" damage model has two modes:
But, there is an underlying damage model that you can see if you turn on the health icons on the F10 map. In addition, units will show degraded performance as they accrue damage. eg Tanks will slow down and fall out of formation as well as shoot less frequently than their healthy counterparts.
OK, but do you have more information on this ? Can I find it anywhere ?

When will tanks or trucks slow down ? After losing how many % of "health" ? How much will they slow down ? Is their aiming also affected ? I'm looking for details.
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