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Old 07-12-2018, 08:54 AM   #2901
Bananabrai
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I see the Tornado as good option as well.

The AJS Viggen basically is the Swedish Tornado and a few things were approached the same way when the Tonka was developed.

What variant I would like to see? Depends on how good the Heatblur guys are.
I personally hope on a GR.1B. Why? Well, for the everyday reason, it gives us a lot of options.

First of all, the British jets had one big advantage. They had fuel inside the fin.
Not a lot, but that classified the British jets as a strategic bomber/striker whereas the other Tonka variants only were tactical bombers/strikes.
It was enough to take of with full reheat, full load out and the big wing tanks, which the other European nations didn't have as well. More endurance is always good...

The GR.1B is a GR.1 with a few more wires. The Tornado was quite modular, the software played the main role.
My dad was a WSO on an IDS from '87 to 2000. During his training (TTTE) in Cottesmore he also learned a lot about the other variants.
In his squadron in Germany they had a software so they could fly form the back only with the radar stick, for some time at least.
No pedals, no throttle, but only a stick ...

So therefore with a GR.1B, I see options on using all the weapons, the GR.1 could deploy but including the Sea Eagle.
We could get unguided bombs, guided bombs, JP223 dispensers, Alarm missiles, the TIALD pod and few more things.
At the moment I am trying to find out, whether the AGM-65 could be deployed or not.
I repeatedly red on different sources, that the Italian and British integrated it and the launcher for the Alarm ARM is the same, but I can't find pictures...

For all those, who will say that this gives us another 'can do every thing'-airplane, the GR.1 still requires a lot of work to handle effectively.
I know the Tornado very well, but never flew it obviously. I know the Viggen just a little from DCS, but I like it.
From my point of view, and I say that from an engineers perspective and close person to former tornado developers and crews, the Tornado is a bit like a slightly better Viggen.
Or say it in another way, its different and a bit newer. The Swedish designed the Viggen for defense of their known grounds, the tornado is a bit more a striker for unknown territory.

Alternatively I suggest the other nations counterpart, an IDS.
At least we get AGM-88, MW-1 dispenser, AS.34 Kormoran, guided and unguided stuff and maybe a B-61 for total destruction. Still sounds good.
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Last edited by Bananabrai; 07-12-2018 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:22 AM   #2902
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Agree with you in all parts, except for adding that at this point would be nice to complete the models' list adding the two ECR versions (Italian and German, I mean) to the IDS.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:44 AM   #2903
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I actually don't have my hopes high for a multi-variant-module, although the tornado variants all handle quite similar.

The masses are different though, and the engine performance is as well. The German ECR's have the newest engines. I also did't mention the RECCE and the GR.1A.

I guess we get most out of a GR.1B. Not that the task and equipment of an ECR is not interesting, ODIN, ELS and FLIR sounds good, but no guns for a striker sounds worse to me.

I would rather get one version and see improvements of current released projects and completely other A/C make it into the game.

No offense here, ECR is great, just my opinion
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:30 AM   #2904
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The Tornado GR series, whichever series of GR is doable for Heatblur will be fine as long it has guns. It melds better with F-14, having those swing wing and it is not single focus like the F-111 which does not even have a auxiliary ability on air to air.



The Tornado can go for variety of ground attack roles as well as emergency attempt to take on air targets like...maybe bombers or some helos nearby with cannons or some self-defense sidewinders.


Finally, its almost fully retired aircraft.



With the above points, its got great market sale value. Well, just my thoughts and opinion on the Tornado series. .





I also would not mind another naval aircraft that would be a challenge to land on carrier without those HUD ILS lineup info help. Something like A-4 Skyhawk or F-8 Crusader. A lovely challenge indeed.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:16 PM   #2905
westr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananabrai View Post
I see the Tornado as good option as well.

The AJS Viggen basically is the Swedish Tornado and a few things were approached the same way when the Tonka was developed.

What variant I would like to see? Depends on how good the Heatblur guys are.
I personally hope on a GR.1B. Why? Well, for the everyday reason, it gives us a lot of options.

First of all, the British jets had one big advantage. They had fuel inside the fin.
Not a lot, but that classified the British jets as a strategic bomber/striker whereas the other Tonka variants only were tactical bombers/strikes.
It was enough to take of with full reheat, full load out and the big wing tanks, which the other European nations didn't have as well. More endurance is always good...

The GR.1B is a GR.1 with a few more wires. The Tornado was quite modular, the software played the main role.
My dad was a WSO on an IDS from '87 to 2000. During his training (TTTE) in Cottesmore he also learned a lot about the other variants.
In his squadron in Germany they had a software so they could fly form the back only with the radar stick, for some time at least.
No pedals, no throttle, but only a stick ...

So therefore with a GR.1B, I see options on using all the weapons, the GR.1 could deploy but including the Sea Eagle.
We could get unguided bombs, guided bombs, JP223 dispensers, Alarm missiles, the TIALD pod and few more things.
At the moment I am trying to find out, whether the AGM-65 could be deployed or not.
I repeatedly red on different sources, that the Italian and British integrated it and the launcher for the Alarm ARM is the same, but I can't find pictures...

For all those, who will say that this gives us another 'can do every thing'-airplane, the GR.1 still requires a lot of work to handle effectively.
I know the Tornado very well, but never flew it obviously. I know the Viggen just a little from DCS, but I like it.
From my point of view, and I say that from an engineers perspective and close person to former tornado developers and crews, the Tornado is a bit like a slightly better Viggen.
Or say it in another way, its different and a bit newer. The Swedish designed the Viggen for defense of their known grounds, the tornado is a bit more a striker for unknown territory.

Alternatively I suggest the other nations counterpart, an IDS.
At least we get AGM-88, MW-1 dispenser, AS.34 Kormoran, guided and unguided stuff and maybe a B-61 for total destruction. Still sounds good.
Good post
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:13 PM   #2906
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I'm fairly sure that only German ECRs don't carry cannons, and Italian ones do have one.



I agree that a GR1B would be a nice variant since it would probably come closer to the early German/Italian Tornadoes (which could also be used for anti-shipping missions) than something like, say, a GR4. Honestly as an Italian guy who loves the Viggen, I'd completely lose my **** if Heatblur made a Tornado.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:30 AM   #2907
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A-6 or MiG-25PD or Su-24M please
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:56 AM   #2908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananabrai View Post
I see the Tornado as good option as well.

The AJS Viggen basically is the Swedish Tornado and a few things were approached the same way when the Tonka was developed.
I totally agree with you. The Tornado and the Viggen are indeed based on the same concept.

I'm very interested in the differences between the british and the german Tornados, especially in the very first Tornado (GR.1/IDS). I did not know about the additional fuel tanks in the fins of the british GR.1, so that's something new for me, thanks! I've also heard that it was not possible in the british GR.1. to project the radar picture onto the map display, like it was possible on the german IDS. Do you know anything about that or any other differences between the two?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananabrai View Post
I actually don't have my hopes high for a multi-variant-module, although the tornado variants all handle quite similar.

The masses are different though, and the engine performance is as well. The German ECR's have the newest engines. I also did't mention the RECCE and the GR.1A.
Here's something I've also wondered about: Is the RECCE actually a modified Tornado variant or is it just the standard IDS Tornado with a RECCE pod attached?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLTeo View Post
I'm fairly sure that only German ECRs don't carry cannons, and Italian ones do have one.
I'm pretty sure the italian ECRs don't carry guns too, as the space is needed for the emitter location system.

Italian ECR Tornado without guns:




IDS Tornado with guns for comparison:

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Last edited by QuiGon; 07-13-2018 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:16 PM   #2909
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Please make a helicopter. An EC725 Caracal, a Super Puma, a NH90 or even a UH60. :-)
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:08 AM   #2910
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+1 for the UH-60
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