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Old 10-18-2019, 01:42 AM   #1
Andrei Dragovic
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Default Standard Formations for the Mirage?

I have pulled the Mirage out of the hangar lately and am curious what the standard formations are for this jet as used by the AdA.

More specifically, I have two questions:

1. What are the formations, their spacing and reference points. I.e. what are the AdA equivalents of:
- Fingertip/Parade
- Route/Cruise
- Tacform - Line abreast/Spread, Fighting Wing/Fighter Wing, Echelon/Deployed Echelon etc.

2. What the procedures and reference points for Rendezvouses? (For US aircraft the reference points are always to superimpose the outer wingtip on the vertical stabiliser, but I don't think that works for a delta wing...)

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:17 AM   #2
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Equivalent of Fingertip/Parade is called PS for Patrouille Serrée
Tac formations are
- FMO (Formation de Manoeuvre Offensive) which is the equivalent of Tac Wing i would say, with a 0.2/0.3 Nm range between lead/wingman. Mostly used by M2000D for low altitude, not that much in Air-Air combat
- FMD (Formation de Manoeuvre Defensive) is the equivalent of Line Abreast mainly used for Air-Air Combat

Rendez vous are always done in the following sequence:
Etagement - Retrait -Ecartement

Etagement is done by putting lead slighty above horizon, then you close in on 45° angle on lead to reduce Retrait and finally you settle for Ecartement

I don't know the reference points.

Jojo might come around and give you a more detail answer

I would love to have more details also
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steph21 View Post
Equivalent of Fingertip/Parade is called PS for Patrouille Serrée
Tac formations are
- FMO (Formation de Manoeuvre Offensive) which is the equivalent of Tac Wing i would say, with a 0.2/0.3 Nm range between lead/wingman. Mostly used by M2000D for low altitude, not that much in Air-Air combat
- FMD (Formation de Manoeuvre Defensive) is the equivalent of Line Abreast mainly used for Air-Air Combat

Rendez vous are always done in the following sequence:
Etagement - Retrait -Ecartement

Etagement is done by putting lead slighty above horizon, then you close in on 45° angle on lead to reduce Retrait and finally you settle for Ecartement

I don't know the reference points.

Jojo might come around and give you a more detail answer

I would love to have more details also
If you don't mind, could you tell me where this info comes from ? It's very interesting .
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myHelljumper View Post
If you don't mind, could you tell me where this info comes from ? It's very interesting .
A part is taken from the book L'ARMEE DE L'AIR EN ACTION from Henri-Pierre Grolleau

Another part is from having done a Stage Patrouille Serrée here: https://www.air-combat-experience.fr/
I was flying with a former Jaguar pilot (+4000h, and 4 years in the Patrouille de France) and he teached me how to handle rejoin, hold formation, crossing under and even fly some FMO during simulated Pop Up attacks. A former 2000N pilot was in the lead plane and was giving us hand signals and wing check signals
We have done also some BFM

A lot of fun i can assure you

Last edited by Steph21; 10-18-2019 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:30 AM   #5
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No, jealousy is not burning my insides at the moment.

Thanks for the info .
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:48 AM   #6
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Here you go
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:04 AM   #7
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Also... pardon my French

Close formation (Patrouille Serrée / PS)
1/ Vertical spacing (étagement): The #2 must see both the extrados (upper surface) and the intrados (under surface) of the leader's wing
2/ Fore and aft spacing (retrait): The #2 sees the leader's engine nozzle as an elongated oval
3/ Lateral spacing (écartement): The #2 aligns the leader's wingtip (nav light/EW antenna) with the scoop just above the root of the wing.

++
Az'
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:57 PM   #8
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Thx a lot
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:18 AM   #9
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Thank you, Azrayen and Steph21, for your very informative replies. Certainly enough for me to go on here.
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