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F86 Engine Sound is Gone!


guitarnerd666

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I don't find anything funny about this thread.

 

Neither do I or many others. Belsimtek, there is a huge pool of seething anger building over your products. I really hope you guys right this ship before people stop buying on principal alone.

 

I love the F-86 so this is disappointing. :(

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I don't find anything funny about this thread.

What is suggested is that the going forward with the Release is a priority above testing and "bugs" identified.'

So why test?

 

Because patching a commercial project is generally a pretty big thing to do. There's often a lot of work that goes into it in various forms before the code can be build, the building of the patch package itself can be quite intensive and time consuming, then you've got the actual testing time both internal and external, and then setting up the systems to distribute that patch.

It's never just "click go and it's ready".

 

Do you remember the last patch? A number of people, myself included, couldn't actually patch at all as there was an issue with the file manifest that only cropped up if the SU-25T training missions were installed.

 

In the bigger view of this game, the sheer amount of files and code, missing one sound effect (or the correct reference to it) in a single module that has no actual negative side affect for the rest of the game is not a big thing.

 

Noticable, yes, but a under development terms a blocker or critical issue? Not in the slightest.

 

There's also the financial side of a patch as well as it takes employee time and therefore money. ED aren't massive, they might have some dedicated testers, but I doubt they've got a dedicated release team whose only job is to compile and release new versions, ergo each patch will have a financial cost associated with it. If it cost you say $2500 (made up number) to build, test and release a patch and the biggest problem was a missing sound effect, would you choose to double the cost and time taken, or release "as is" especially knowing another patch scheduled for a few weeks time?


Edited by Buzzles
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I don't find anything funny about this thread.

What is suggested is that the going forward with the Release is a priority above testing and "bugs" identified.'

So why test?

Nor do I find this thread funny - as I already explicitely expressed in my posting. :doh:

 

What are you proposing here? That only patches should be released when all identified bugs are fixed? Really? Do you prefer to wait x months until all is done and then you get your patch or do you prefere to wait x months with patches every few weeks until the backlog of bugs is completed?

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Are we talking about ED or BST here? Doesn't BST have a tester?

Seriously, if anyone at BST had taken ONE flight with the F-86 while the patch was in beta, they would have noticed that sound was missing.

 

Now tell me, for "just a missing reference to the sound file" in the code (something they already fixed internally) was it worth it to open up yet another can of worms? Considering all the heat they're getting for lacking updates...

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...Do you prefer to wait x months until all is done and then you get your patch or do you prefere to wait x months with patches every few weeks until the backlog of bugs is completed?

How are you going to complete a backlog of bugs if every other patch you break something you fixed in the patch before??

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Why are you so rude? Why do you think that BST didn't add anything? Such things happen, unfortunately.

 

It has been said that issue will be fixed with next update.

 

Not being rude, I'm sorry if that sounded rude to you. I haven't seen anything in the changelog.

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I'm glad you find it funny, I actually think it's pretty sad.

 

What I don't get is this: BST hasn't added anything with this patch, so it's not like they were so busy testing new features / fixes that this one slipped. Instead, a very noticeable sound bug has been introduced into their very latest module. Now, one would think that they at least gave some attention to their latest release, but of course this seems to be left rusting with the other modules while they work on yet something else.

See my reply right above this one. I don't find it funny - but I thought you tried to be funny when you suggested that the devs deliberately put bugs into their software. Even for being sarcastic that statement was too dumb to be treated serious ....

 

Btw, the cause for bugs can be located in totally different areas than where they seem to pop up. You and I don't know how things are related and working together under the hood. There are so many different reasons I could think of that could sound cause to get broken ... some error in configuring the installer/autoupdater files, some changes to the DCS core that deals with sound in general, side effects that are probably even more unrelated looking (i.e. totally different issue, but there were problems with liveries ... for italian skins. They had some strange characters in their name - not even THAT strange like i.e. german umlauts or something, but strange enough to break some file access logic)

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How are you going to complete a backlog of bugs if every other patch you break something you fixed in the patch before??

With patience and hard work.

 

The whole DCS thing is undergoing huge changes atm. There is some friction, yes, and s**t happens, but it will eventually get better and better over time.

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  • ED Team
Not being rude, I'm sorry if that sounded rude to you. I haven't seen anything in the changelog.

 

Ok, thank you!

 

But everything has its reasons. The main goal of this update was to introduce new FM for Su-27. Fixes are made, bugs are fixed, but not every fix can make its way to release. This particular fix didn't.

 

Tomorrow, I will try to find and translate post from russian forum where some explanations were made.


Edited by cofcorpse
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Are we talking about ED or BST here? Doesn't BST have a tester?

Seriously, if anyone at BST had taken ONE flight with the F-86 while the patch was in beta, they would have noticed that sound was missing.

 

Now tell me, for "just a missing reference to the sound file" in the code (something they already fixed internally) was it worth it to open up yet another can of worms? Considering all the heat they're getting for lacking updates...

As I said in one of my earlier replies: under the hood things can be tied together that seem to be unrelated on the surface. BST did not change the Sabre, did not touch the F-86 ... so why should they test it? Yes, maybe they should have, but to question their work, their procedures because of such a small glitch ... dunno.

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Ok, thank you!

 

But everything has its reasons. The main goal of this update was to introduce new FM for Su-27. Fixes are made, bugs are fixed, but not every fix can make its way to release. This particular fix didn't.

 

Tomorrow, I will try to find and translate post from russian forum where some explanations were made.

 

Look man, I really hope you guys sort out all the stuff you need to sort out. I also think the community is trying to tell you (BST) something. See, I'm no computer guy, I work in marketing, and one thing I know is that now you're under the magnifying glass, so if you screw up on something small, it will still be a big deal to the public eye, and deteriorate your image / brand. You need to give a sign that things are improving. I mean this sincerely and I wish you all the best, because if you actually fix your modules and get them out of beta, there's no reason why you shouldn't be very successful.

 

I'm off to bed now :thumbup:

Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s

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Tomorrow, I will try to find and translate post from russian forum where some explanations were made.

 

That will probably make a lot of difference.

 

If everyone had an explanation from the start, I think there would be a lot more understanding.

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Nor do I find this thread funny - as I already explicitely expressed in my posting. :doh:

 

What are you proposing here? That only patches should be released when all identified bugs are fixed? Really? Do you prefer to wait x months until all is done and then you get your patch or do you prefere to wait x months with patches every few weeks until the backlog of bugs is completed?

 

What I'm proposing is that if in fact they take the time to test and a problem is detected, THEN FIX THE DAMN PROBLEM BEFORE RELEASING.

If they are not going to do that, then don't test. Obviously it's a waste of time.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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What I'm proposing is that if in fact they take the time to test and a problem is detected, THEN FIX THE DAMN PROBLEM BEFORE RELEASING.

If they are not going to do that, then don't test. Obviously it's a waste of time.

It was said earlier in this thread, and not only by me, that it is not always viable to fix any bug asap in the instance it was detected. But I will repeat it for you:

 

  1. You test to detect bugs - as many as possible.
  2. Then you prioritize the bugs: bugs that make the program unusuable, bugs that have a severe impact on the function, bugs that are just annoying, bugs that are "meh ... but ok, should be fixed" and then bugs that aren't really bugs at all (but misunderstandings, whishes, etc.)
  3. After that you estimate how much time it will need to fix these bugs, starting with the most important bugs - those which have the most impact.
  4. And you start fixing them. The goal is to provide fixes for the most pressing issues as fast as possible - without getting overboard with it. I.e. you simply can not release a patch for every single bug, resulting in 3-4 patches per day. Just not viable (and also annoying for us customers).
  5. So you set a schedule: bug 100 - 122 must be fixed until end of next week so that the customers can actually _use_ the program again. Then, 2-3 weeks later, the next patch should be released. And so on.

And this is not a process that starts at 1 and ends at 5 and then starts all over again. It is not a "loop", but more like a spiral: the testing continues and new bugs are discovered all the time and appropriate adjustments are to be made (prioritizing, (re-)scheduling, etc.) all the time as well.

 

But the earlier you test the better the chances that it will be fixed sooner than later. But it does not mean that it will be fixed asap. You - now as customer - could not afford to pay the price for it if it would be done that way.


Edited by Flagrum
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For over 33 years, I directed complex software/system development for a large business in the states. I'm "familiar" with the processes that surround software development.

I'm not going to continue arguing.

I'll just close with this observation:

The "No Sound" bug was initially detected and reported when the 12.11 OPEN BETA was released. In my book, there was more than ample time to correct the problem in the public release of 12.11. If it was a conscious decision to not include the fix in the release I'd like to hear that and the reason from ED and/or BST.

My suspicion is that the testing, configuration management and internal communication processes at ED are broken to the point that the quality, i.e., performance related to accuracy of the code, is either not there or inadequate.

Regarding what is "affordable", very few businesses survive with recurring problems with their product. So, what is the true price of quality?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

3rd Mar Div

RVN '66-'67

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you see guys

the fix was very quick :)

 

 

Small update of 1.2.11.34087

 

Change Log

 

• UH-1H. Added message about release of a sling load cargo

• Fw 190 D-9. Corrected issue with Flight Manual

• Su-27 campaign is corrected

• Added Su-27 training mission to single mission section

• Su-27. Brake parachute will be reloading

• CA. Broken HUD indication is fixed

F-86F. Added missing engine sound :thumbup:

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Good stuff, I'm glad they decided to release a "hotfix". I like to think this was in response to our complaints, in which case, good move. :thumbup:

Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s

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:thumbup: :thumbup: now Sabre works fine

 

Not in my case :(

Still no sound here after Update !

Once again - very frustrating !



CPU: i7-5820K, 3.3GHz GPU: nVidia GeForce GTX1080 Motherboard: Gigabyte X99-UD3 RAM: G.Skill DDR4-2133 16GB SSD: Crucial MX200 500GB OS: Win 10 64Bit
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  • ED Team
Not in my case :(

Still no sound here after Update !

Once again - very frustrating !

 

The fix is currently in open beta, if you are not seeing it try a repair.

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

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The fix is currently in open beta, if you are not seeing it try a repair.

 

O.k. My fault ! Thought it was released in final version !

Open Beta updated , sound is o.k. :)

 

Markuscha



CPU: i7-5820K, 3.3GHz GPU: nVidia GeForce GTX1080 Motherboard: Gigabyte X99-UD3 RAM: G.Skill DDR4-2133 16GB SSD: Crucial MX200 500GB OS: Win 10 64Bit
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  • ED Team
O.k. My fault ! Thought it was released in final version !

Open Beta updated , sound is o.k. :)

 

Markuscha

 

no problem everyone makes mistake's ;)

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

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