Questions about the MiG19

Not being a real Harrier pilot but actually having flown real aircraft, and having some reservations about how "accurate" any of the FM's actually are. The Harrier flies like a FBW aircraft IMO, at least when compared to something like the F14 or Viggen, mig21 etc. No juddering/shuddering when pulling G's no real issues not using the rudder, it flies VERY smooth, much like the M2K. The problem is that the harrier isn't a FBW aircraft... Not having flown one IRL though who knows, and its still in EA so the FM might get updated. The VTOL characteristics seem sort of right, the plane is very susceptible to rolling, though it doesn't seem to model ground effect from what I can tell or any sort of transitioning from a hover to side of a ship to the deck.

I find it "funny" that you claim to be all about FM, and only refer to "feelings", and the same wing in a slightly different airframe even a few slats can make a differences between flight regimes and behavior.

By the way the personality" or special characteristics of planes in Sims, generally are artificial, unless you have a cray computer to translate fluid physics over a specific body in real time, times number of airplanes in a sim, then you are never ever going to get the right "feeling"

Instead we have brave coders that TRY to replicate as close as possible flight physics. Having said this, of course its never going to be perfect.

Still I believe that DCS is the sim that better achieves this "illusion" so far.

Inside DCS I find the Mig 19 quite well done, save for some Issues that ARE being Adressed.

When you say it feels like plastic, compared to what? other sim? other module? do you actually fly IRL?

Just curious too ;)

Then again the Mig 19 so far has some issues that are being addressed, AND a developer that listens...

By the way EVERY plane out there is inheritable stable, otherwise nobody would fly it!

The Unstable ones never make it out of the prototype stage... You might have compressibility issues, adverse Yaw issues (but they cant be to exaggerated or otherwise again the prototype does not make it into production... Well maybe the F-104 is the exception LOL)

To me it on par with the Mig 15 or F-5 regarding FM.

Regarding the harrier, This Is not the Harriers Section ;). And it has a different project manager ;)

 

To me it on par with the Mig 15 or F-5 regarding FM.

 

No, not yet. When they publish the fixes that are being worked on, then, hopefully it will get there soon.

About the feelings part: You need BOTH the hard data and the feelings part to get an aircaft simulated right. All the fine little details cannot be read off a chart or the manuals, that is just impossible. That is why, in my opinion a developer needs pilot input for both FM and system developement. There is a reason why HB and ED is working with pilots.

I can understant that finding a Mig-19 driver is close to impossible, but then still it would be important to get someone, who has some flight experience on anything that is at least a high performace jet. Sure a lot of sim products have been developed without that extra, but looking at the F-14 and F-18 you can see that it really pays off (at least for me the customer:))

It will be the same problem with the Mig-23. I'm 100% sure that if Razbam would get one of the F-14 SMEs involved in that developement, it would have a very positive effect on the FM. Who knows, maybe they will be interested about their old enemy.

Dear Pinello and whoever else claimed i was just trolling.....

... and the MiG19 surprise, feels like plastic.

 

Just writing someone off as a troll is ignorant.

You certainly look like a troll because you havent even purchased the module and yet you already know how it "feels" .. sorry, but its really hard to take you seriously :(

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No, not yet. When they publish the fixes that are being worked on, then, hopefully it will get there soon.

 

 

About the feelings part: You need BOTH the hard data and the feelings part to get an aircaft simulated right. All the fine little details cannot be read off a chart or the manuals, that is just impossible. That is why, in my opinion a developer needs pilot input for both FM and system developement. There is a reason why HB and ED is working with pilots.

 

I can understant that finding a Mig-19 driver is close to impossible, but then still it would be important to get someone, who has some flight experience on anything that is at least a high performace jet. Sure a lot of sim products have been developed without that extra, but looking at the F-14 and F-18 you can see that it really pays off (at least for me the customer:))

 

It will be the same problem with the Mig-23. I'm 100% sure that if Razbam would get one of the F-14 SMEs involved in that developement, it would have a very positive effect on the FM. Who knows, maybe they will be interested about their old enemy.

The Mig-23 is still in service in Cuba where one member of Razbam is based (I think?) so getting an SME for that jet should be doable.

in Cuba where one member of Razbam is based (I think?).

Nop

Ah too bad! I could swear I read that somewhere though...

I read that too......you're not wrong at all.

Why a non FBW aircraft cannot fly smoothly?

 

I´m assuming that all the aircraft you have flown didn´t had FBW, because there would be no other way to compare and also that they had some kind of instability behavior in them, since they can´t have an unstable configuration, because you need FBW to fly those. I do know that many think that flying a real aircraft is an act of balance, while in reality and while not incorporating any form of FBW, many aircraft fly really smoothly.

Yeah, I think there is something lost in the translation here. Of course the AV8 is a stable air-frame. I'm talking about edge of the envelope or hard rapid manouvireng, which should have some sort of aerodynamic "ques" or "feel" and possibly quirks to it. Every plane I've ever flown has had those, and they seem to be there on other DCS planes to one extent or another. And aside from the wings randomly breaking off with no warning when doing hard maneuvering I don't really get that from the harrier.

This vid has much more "shudder" and some "shaking" when the harrier gets maneuvered and pulling G's around the 1:30 mark. Especially compared to the "smooth" flying around the 2:44 mark.

Actual Harrier driver saying the stability augmentation system has a mode where the plane "flies a lot like a Hornet"...sounds like this is what you're referring to?

See my other post about edge of envelope stuff. I have tried turning the SAS off, and it is definitely less stable and more "wobbly". Overall I don't think the harrier FM is all that bad, I just wouldn't put it into the same category as the HB ones in terms of "feel" and that is subjective.