Jump to content

A-10C Startup Tutoial


knightal

Recommended Posts

Is there a known bug in the startup of the A-10C

 

I've tried this tutorial at least 10+ times and only actually got the engines to start about twice. And one of those times the plane started to roll forward whilst I was looking at the controls following the instructors instructions and it crashed into the fuel truck.

 

When he tells me to switch off the APU generator on the right panel then the one on the throttle the master alarm comes on and any hint that the engines are starting stops and all is quiet, while he just continues like all is well.

 

I'm using the Warthog Hotas thrust and Joystick. I have the Thrust levers in the off position at the start. All is fine up to the point where he says (referring to the left engine) "As the engine spools up" well nothing is spooling up. It did a couple of times but not every time.

 

I appreciate that this is a sim but come on. Am I missing something here.

 

If I start any other training or mission in the air the throttle works the engines fine so any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

:pilotfly:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Follow the checklist, not just the voice instructions. I didn’t have issues with the startup tutorial, so just try again? Never start up any airplane without holding the brakes. You can pull the emergency brake if you don’t feel like holding the brakes the whole time. It’s producing some thrust, even at idle, and the plane will roll!

 

Make sure your boost pumps are on. That got me once or twice. If it doesn’t spool up properly, try pulling the throttle back to the cutoff, then waiting for it to come to zero RPM, then try the other engine first.

My DCS Missions: Band of Buds series | The End of the T-55 Era | Normandy PvP | Host of the Formation Flight Challenge server

 

Supercarrier Reference Kneeboards

 

IRL: Private Pilot, UAS Test Pilot, Aircraft Designer, and... eh hem... DCS Enthusiast

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an X45 that I leave at idle during the startup. Here's the general list of items to get the engines started

 

Battery

Inverter

AC Gen x2

Boost Pumps x4

APU - wait for 100%

APU gen

Left Engine start - RAlt+Home - wait until it's stabilized

Right Engine start - RCtrl+Home - wait until it's stabilzed

APU off

APU gen off

 

I had the right engine hang during startup the other day so I did as GTFreeFlyer said and went back to cutoff (RCtrl+End), waited until RPM was zero and then started again. It was fine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Follow the checklist, not just the voice instructions. I didn’t have issues with the startup tutorial, so just try again? Never start up any airplane without holding the brakes. You can pull the emergency brake if you don’t feel like holding the brakes the whole time. It’s producing some thrust, even at idle, and the plane will roll!

 

Make sure your boost pumps are on. That got me once or twice. If it doesn’t spool up properly, try pulling the throttle back to the cutoff, then waiting for it to come to zero RPM, then try the other engine first.

 

Thanks for the tips I'll get back to it and try what you suggest. Never say never, onward & Upwards :pilotfly:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an X45 that I leave at idle during the startup. Here's the general list of items to get the engines started

 

Battery

Inverter

AC Gen x2

Boost Pumps x4

APU - wait for 100%

APU gen

Left Engine start - RAlt+Home - wait until it's stabilized

Right Engine start - RCtrl+Home - wait until it's stabilzed

APU off

APU gen off

 

I had the right engine hang during startup the other day so I did as GTFreeFlyer said and went back to cutoff (RCtrl+End), waited until RPM was zero and then started again. It was fine

 

Thanks for the list I'll print it out :pilotfly:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Follow the checklist, not just the voice instructions. I didn’t have issues with the startup tutorial, so just try again? Never start up any airplane without holding the brakes. You can pull the emergency brake if you don’t feel like holding the brakes the whole time. It’s producing some thrust, even at idle, and the plane will roll!

 

Make sure your boost pumps are on. That got me once or twice. If it doesn’t spool up properly, try pulling the throttle back to the cutoff, then waiting for it to come to zero RPM, then try the other engine first.

 

Good point re the emergency brake. Thanks for the other info also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an X45 that I leave at idle during the startup. Here's the general list of items to get the engines started

 

Battery

Inverter

AC Gen x2

Boost Pumps x4

APU - wait for 100%

APU gen

Left Engine start - RAlt+Home - wait until it's stabilized

Right Engine start - RCtrl+Home - wait until it's stabilzed

APU off

APU gen off

 

I had the right engine hang during startup the other day so I did as GTFreeFlyer said and went back to cutoff (RCtrl+End), waited until RPM was zero and then started again. It was fine

 

 

Not to be too much of a smart ass, but usually you engage generators after the engines are stabilized. On the other hand "APU Generator - Off" should be before "APU-OFF". The following Master Caution warning is normal.

At least that's how it is done in some other aircrafts.

sharkfin out!

Support your local AirTransportWing !

NEW RIG:

RYZEN 7  5800X3D~ AORUS GTX 1080Ti ~ AORUS X570S Elite AX ~64 GB Corsair Venegance DDR-4 3600 ~ BeQuiet AIO Silent loop 2 360  watercooled ~ Samsung 890 Pro M.2 (2TB) + 870 EVO (1TB) SSD ~ WIN 10 64-bit ~ AOC 31.5" Gaming 144Hz Display ~ DelanClip@TrackIR 5 ~ TM Warthog no.2 ~Saitek rudder pedals~ 2 TM MFDs on 2nd 27"display ~ Buddyfox A-10 UFC ~ CDU/AAP panel via DCSBios ~ ARC-210 (soldering WIP)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been having no problem getting the engines up and running. If you're rolling on startup, maybe need to make sure throttle lever is in idle position. It doesn't take much to get this bird moving. That master caution is normal. The way I handle it is by adjusting my checklist so that the AC Gen switches are in the ON position prior to engine start. Then when the L Eng gets up to speed, the L Gen will will take over and set the APU Gen offline. (That's what generates a Master Caution because the system knows that the switch is still in the ON position.) At this point I just switch the APU Gen to OFF. That takes care of one item on my checklist and silences the Master Caution at the same time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there a known bug in the startup of the A-10C

 

Not that I know of.

 

A common problem is when DCS doesn't detect when you move your actual throttle from off to idle. Have you confirmed that the in-game throttle was going to idle? It's very easy to spot (especially if you have the TM Warthog, because it looks almost exactly the real thing). If it didn't, just put your TM throttle back to off, and then once again to idle. This time, DCS should really pick it up and the engine should then start normally.

 

This problem can be circumvented by either activating "Synchronize HOTAS controls at mission start" (or similar) in the options, or by keeping the actual throttles in idle until you're in the pit and the mission is unpaused, and then moving them to the off position. This way, DCS will detect that they're off and will then properly detect once you move them to idle.

 

I just ran the beginning of the tutorial (in the current OpenBeta) and it wasn't missing any required steps, so you should be fine following it.

 

One thing to note, though: Before starting the second engine, make sure that the ENG START CYCLE lamp at the top left of the caution light panel is off! The tutorial doesn't mention this, so a player might start the right engine too soon and by doing so mess up the start cycle of the first engine.

 

And one of those times the plane started to roll forward whilst I was looking at the controls following the instructors instructions and it crashed into the fuel truck.

 

That's pretty rare. Make sure the throttles are really in idle and you don't apply any power before you're ready to taxi.

 

However, it is always good advice to step on the brakes prior to engine start and keep brake pressure until taxi. The ground crew will appreciate not being run over. :)

 

Never start up any airplane without holding the brakes. You can pull the emergency brake if you don’t feel like holding the brakes the whole time.

 

Good advice about holding the brakes, bad advice about the emergency brake.

 

The A-10's emergency brake does NOT hold the aircraft, or apply any brake power at all. It just switches to the right hydraulic system and provides, as the name suggests, emergency hydraulic power in case of left hydraulic failure.

 

As a rule of thumb: When starting the right engine first, make sure the emergency brake handle is pulled, and only push it back in after successful left engine startup (and when left hydraulic pressure is nominal).

 

In any case of left engine or left hydraulic failure, it is also necessary to pull the emergency brake handle.

 

But regardless if this handle is pulled or not, the only way to apply brake power is to step on the pedals.

 

I believe quite a few A-10 pilots jokingly prioritized a parking brake as the most important feature they'd like to see added (and they weren't really joking). :smartass:

 

Not to be too much of a smart ass, but usually you engage generators after the engines are stabilized.

 

Not in the A-10.

 

I believe the Dash one has the generator switches even before the battery is turned on (the boost pumps also come as one of the very first items). The DCS startup tutorial has these steps further along, but it's still correct to set generators to on before starting the engines.

 

Baltic Dragon once released mission 1 of the upcoming A-10C Training campaign in NTTR. In that mission, it is done correctly (he and Doughboy did extensive research before putting these missions together). The thread, and mission 1, can be found here: Announcement - new A-10C DLC training campaign

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...

 

Not in the A-10.

 

I believe the Dash one has the generator switches even before the battery is turned on (the boost pumps also come as one of the very first items). The DCS startup tutorial has these steps further along, but it's still correct to set generators to on before starting the engines.

 

Baltic Dragon once released mission 1 of the upcoming A-10C Training campaign in NTTR. In that mission, it is done correctly (he and Doughboy did extensive research before putting these missions together). The thread, and mission 1, can be found here: Announcement - new A-10C DLC training campaign

 

Thank you for that information.

Made me also check the rest of the TO 1A-10C-1 again. What I also found, the APU generator is switched off prior to the APU shutdown. But this happpens pages later, after engaging the SAS. shortly prior taxiing. Very interesting read.

 

T.O. 1A-10C-1

 

[link removed]


Edited by sharkfin61
forum rules

sharkfin out!

Support your local AirTransportWing !

NEW RIG:

RYZEN 7  5800X3D~ AORUS GTX 1080Ti ~ AORUS X570S Elite AX ~64 GB Corsair Venegance DDR-4 3600 ~ BeQuiet AIO Silent loop 2 360  watercooled ~ Samsung 890 Pro M.2 (2TB) + 870 EVO (1TB) SSD ~ WIN 10 64-bit ~ AOC 31.5" Gaming 144Hz Display ~ DelanClip@TrackIR 5 ~ TM Warthog no.2 ~Saitek rudder pedals~ 2 TM MFDs on 2nd 27"display ~ Buddyfox A-10 UFC ~ CDU/AAP panel via DCSBios ~ ARC-210 (soldering WIP)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the note about the emergency brake. I just assumed it was a physical cable down to the calipers rather than hydraulics, just in case you lost all hydraulics.

 

I swear I played a mission where I landed, all battle-torn, without any pressure in the brake lines. Aircraft was only slowing down due to air brakes and general drag and friction. As I approached the end of the runway at high speed, I pulled the e.brake at the last moment and the aircraft came to a sudden halt only a few feet off the end of the runway. So what happened there? Just trying to understand how that system worked out for me.

 

Funny but true story... I have a pilot’s license and rent Cessnas. My training consisted of me being told to never set the parking brake or pull the handle (opposite of what the checklist says), because the aircraft I rent are “difficult” to reset the parking brakes. I guess they get stuck. So now I’m close to 200 takeoffs and landings and have never once used the parking brake. I sure do stand on those brake pedals though when I start up the engine!

 

This is likely what led to my incorrect statement of using the e.brake in the A-10. I’ve never actually tried it because I’m always standing on the brake pedals when parked. This is what happens when you mix reality and sims. I’m also completely lost in a Cessna without my targeting pod!

My DCS Missions: Band of Buds series | The End of the T-55 Era | Normandy PvP | Host of the Formation Flight Challenge server

 

Supercarrier Reference Kneeboards

 

IRL: Private Pilot, UAS Test Pilot, Aircraft Designer, and... eh hem... DCS Enthusiast

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you move your (ingame) throttle from off to idle make sure your physical throttle is at absolutely 0%. Check the windows gamecontroller settings whether there is an input on the throttle axis when you have it completely down. If there is any throttle input from your stick, the ingame throttle won't move from off to idle.

"Sieh nur, wie majestätisch du durch die Luft segelst. Wie ein Adler. Ein fetter Adler."

http://www.space-view.net

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Made me also check the rest of the TO 1A-10C-1 again. What I also found, the APU generator is switched off prior to the APU shutdown.

 

Yup, off the top of my head I was fairly sure that was correct.

 

Just a heads-up, I believe the TO 1A-10C-1 is not approved for public distribution, and a recent change to the ED forum rules also is fairly strict about sharing and linking to real world documentation later than the 1980s. We all know the document can be found on the web, but you might want to consider removing the link.

 

I swear I played a mission where I landed, all battle-torn, [...] So what happened there? Just trying to understand how that system worked out for me.

 

Huh. To the best of my knowledge, that should not have done anything.

 

I've landed badly damaged DCS A-10Cs or those with intentional hydraulic failure (Manual Reversion) and found that the emergency brake does indeed provide me with just enough brake presses to stop the jet. But if not done right, I might run out of brake power and the rest is inertia. :D

 

My training consisted of me being told to never set the parking brake or pull the handle (opposite of what the checklist says), because the aircraft I rent are “difficult” to reset the parking brakes.

 

I love those real world stories! Thanks for sharing this one. ;)

 

If I ever start to do real world flying, I'm certainly interested how much it deviates from my experiences with DCS, also in terms of SOPs and regulations. :smartass:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the note about the emergency brake. I just assumed it was a physical cable down to the calipers rather than hydraulics, just in case you lost all hydraulics.

 

I swear I played a mission where I landed, all battle-torn, without any pressure in the brake lines. Aircraft was only slowing down due to air brakes and general drag and friction. As I approached the end of the runway at high speed, I pulled the e.brake at the last moment and the aircraft came to a sudden halt only a few feet off the end of the runway. So what happened there? Just trying to understand how that system worked out for me.

 

Funny but true story... I have a pilot’s license and rent Cessnas. My training consisted of me being told to never set the parking brake or pull the handle (opposite of what the checklist says), because the aircraft I rent are “difficult” to reset the parking brakes. I guess they get stuck. So now I’m close to 200 takeoffs and landings and have never once used the parking brake. I sure do stand on those brake pedals though when I start up the engine!

 

This is likely what led to my incorrect statement of using the e.brake in the A-10. I’ve never actually tried it because I’m always standing on the brake pedals when parked. This is what happens when you mix reality and sims. I’m also completely lost in a Cessna without my targeting pod!

 

I’d be having a chat with the maintenance folks. Wonder what else doesn’t work “quite right?”

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php

High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use.

www.crosswindimages.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny but true story... I have a pilot’s license and rent Cessnas. My training consisted of me being told to never set the parking brake or pull the handle (opposite of what the checklist says), because the aircraft I rent are “difficult” to reset the parking brakes. I guess they get stuck. So now I’m close to 200 takeoffs and landings and have never once used the parking brake. I sure do stand on those brake pedals though when I start up the engine!

!

 

There's nothing to resetting a parking brake on a Cessna. You just hold the toe brakes, pull the parking brake handle a little, twist it counter-clockwise, and push it to the stop. You usually don't want to set the brake when leaving it parked (as long as its chocked) somewhere just because somebody with a tug and not much experience may need to tow it and not know how to recognize that the brakes are on. That tends to hurt things. :thumbup:


Edited by eaglecash867

EVGA Z690 Classified, Intel i9 12900KS Alder Lake processor, MSI MAG Core Liquid 360R V2 AIO Liquid CPU Cooler, G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 64GB DDR5 6400 memory, EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 Ultra 24GB video card, Samsung 980PRO 1TB M2.2280 SSD for Windows 10 64-bit OS, Samsung 980PRO 2TB M2.2280 SSD for program files, LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray burner. HOTAS Warthog, Saitek Pedals, HP Reverb G2. Partridge and pear tree pending. :pilotfly:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’d be having a chat with the maintenance folks.

 

Yeah, it is indeed an old saying to not use the parking brake in GA aircraft. It seems to never work properly and in some aircraft has almost zero effect. And it might get stuck. But if the system is in a good condition and maintained as it should be it works like it is designed to. And of course it should not be set if the aircraft is parked for more than a few hours to reduce wear on the hydraulic lines. Sadly a lot of GA aircraft are far from proper maintenance despite all regulations.

 

As for military jets, in the aircraft I know of manual braking is not possible. You cannot exert enough force with your feet to operate those multi disk brakes. The system works only with pressure from the hyd system. Is there an emergency brake accumulator in the A-10?

 

But there are exceptions: The old F-104 does have a brake cylinder so the pilot can use the brakes to a very limited amount.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, it is still there:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/dcs_a-10c_quickstart_guide_en/

maybe one needs to de dust it :)

 

 

Besides I really like it that the ppl of today are still asking the same questions as we did 10 or more years ago. I don't know if the Warthog Stick already existed but I don't had the money anyways - so I was asking wth do I have to do to move the "§$& thrust levers - crawling 20x under my deskt to 'fix' my joystick (!) cables haha.

Do you still go to copyshops to print this:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/dcs_a-10c_flight_manual_en/

?

Maybe you better use the manual found in your games mods a10c documents folder as it might have been better updated..


Edited by Hekktor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes there is an accumulator in the brake circuit.

 

Not a good idea to parking brake any vehicle with hot brakes, jet, C-172, track car or otherwise. That said I never had any Cessna parking brake problem problems even on the 1978 models. It's not such a critical feature though. They were always stored chained down brake off so opportunities to actually use the parking brake were limited.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...