Input Devices Re-Initialisation

Disabled my realtek completely and it still happens. I started checking the event log and there's always this event happening when stuff gets dis-reconnected:

[From Windows logs -> Security]

A user's local group membership was enumerated.

Subject:
   Security ID:        MyPC\SomeUserName
   Account Name:        SomeUserName
   Account Domain:        MyPC
   Logon ID:        0x563D1

User:
   Security ID:        MyPC\SomeUserName
   Account Name:        SomeUserName
   Account Domain:        MyPC

Process Information:
   Process ID:        0xab0
   Process Name:        C:\Windows\explorer.exe

This event occurs a lot without disconnects but with the disconnects this event is always there. Happens without DCS running so it's more likely a Windows issue. Other people also report this, none DCS related:

https://www.tenforums.com/performance-maintenance/28598-too-many-audit-success-security-auditing-events-happening.html

Messed around a bit with what's mentioned in this blog under additional information but thusfar no good solution although some USB devices started to act a bit different when i changed parameters (so i changed things back).

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-hardware/usb-devices-keeps-disconnecting-reconnecting/7e7c792e-04f1-489d-a735-a8b74a7314b5

Before trying what's mentioned make sure to make a system backup or create a restore point at least in case you mess something up.

It's no solution (yet) but maybe a step in the right (m$) direction.

Hello all,

Thanks ED for the new update of 2.5, a lot of issues are solved but still a few are left.

I never got around posting this, but since the 2.5 version 2018-02-14 HOTFIX 3, I had NO ISSUES AT ALL with this input device re-initialisation, it was COMPLETELY SOLVED and I could again use ALL buttons on my TM Warthog.

There were no more entries in the logs, apart from the initial init at mission start, I WAS SUPER HAPPY!!!

But now, after this week's updates, the issue is back :(

I have numerous entries again in the logs, and I am again faced with PHANTOM CLICKS on my TM Warthog Throttle, which in my case caused for autopilot to turn on/off and electric systems on/off etc.

This of course depends on which buttons you assigned.

So ED, it seems you had fixed it and it's back again, any chance you guys are willing to look into this?

Logs and DXDiag are attached, thanks!

dcs.rar

DxDiag.rar

And one more customer having the same shit here. Today I had 10 "inputs creation" in less than 5 min during the game... I am literally at 0.5 fps when it happens which makes any actions impossibles in this condition. THAT'S WHY I'M NOT GOING TO BUY DCS MODULES ANYMORE (may be ed team will react this way). I prefer to keep my small purchase power for something which is worth it.

I don't know if its a coincidence but it seems there is more inputs creation during combat phases.

Beyond that, despite I read ALL the post of this thread and tried everything (except the Realtek thing), I have no clue why this is happening. I'm not hearing any sound from windows about usb deconnection then the problem seems to be related with DCS. I'm having this issue with DCS 1.5.8 and DCS 2.5 beta.

I also noticed huge lags (30 seconds freeze) when I take screenshots especially the first screenshot. And the others looks smooth (= no lags).

thanks for helping

I would keep in mind that this issue could be a Windows problem. These disconnects also occur without DCS running for some people so i would at least point another finger at Microsoft.

You can check for USB device disconnects when DCS isn't running using a USB log viewer:

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_log_view.html

I would keep in mind that this issue could be a Windows problem. These disconnects also occur without DCS running for some people so i would at least point another finger at Microsoft.

 

You can check for USB device disconnects when DCS isn't running using a USB log viewer:

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_log_view.html

You are right. But everything possible has already been tried on windows (windows 10, 8.1, and 7) including the USB log viewer by others dude here with no success.

On my side, except the logviewer and the realtek tricks, i tried all the others solutions with no success :

- Changing the entry of every usb port in regedit with usb deview changing from 1 to 0.

- Disabling the usb shutdown in windows device management for every usb devices.

- Preventing windows to shutdown usb devices in windows power management.

- Updating my drivers' devices.

Next time I will check the logviewer when using DCS (2.5) and tells if usb devices were disconnected during the play.

Also something weird i noticed in the DCS log is the keyboard input creation while my keyboard device is not a usb device since i have a laptop (a good one).

On the other hand, my trackir camera is a usb device using the facetracknoir program but never get input creation in the logs unless i unplug it intentionally.

Another weird and annoying thing is when i use the alt, ctrl or shift keys when the game started these keys are simply not working inside the game. For example alt+F1 to switch from cockpit view to transparent view is not working. BUT when i check the keybinding and press the alt+f1 it retrieves the line associated to that key combination! what a troll seriously. To be able to use this keybinding in game, i have to re-create it. May be it is not related to our problem but who knows.

I'll check logviewer also with another game such as arma3 with all the same usb devices connected and see if usb get disconnected too. If not then we would conclude that its 100% DCS fault and all fingers will be pointed to them.

Maybe it's not the same for everyone, i get the disconnects even without DCS running. I've tried the list of fixes you mentioned but it doesn't help. The only thing that appears to make them occur less often is disabling a bunch of scheduled tasks. What for me always works best is to reboot windows before doing some serious DCS flying.

Maybe it's not the same for everyone, i get the disconnects even without DCS running. I've tried the list of fixes you mentioned but it doesn't help. The only thing that appears to make them occur less often is disabling a bunch of scheduled tasks. What for me always works best is to reboot windows before doing some serious DCS flying.

What do you mean exactly when you say "i get the disconnects even without DCS running." ?

Does your DCS is not running at all? In that case you can't have input creations in DCS logs.

Or did you noticed disconnection in usb viewer tool? (which everyone here doesn't experienced)

The issue is a Windows problem, yes, but how DCS reacts to it (locking up for several seconds as well as causing a DirectX reset to all gaming devices while it rediscovers them) is unique to DCS.

What ever the Windows issue is (and there are several possible things that will trigger it, but one ultimate issue), Microsoft isn't going to fix it any time soon, and having to disable power management, or edit the registry for every single USB device isn't a solution (even if it worked, which it does not).

I've stopped playing DCS and buying DLC because of this issue. Not retribution - just there is no fun in it. I can't play multiplayer with my group because I'm a hazard when I lock up. My only hope now is to wipe my hard disk and re-install. My biggest fear is it is related to certain motherboards and even a reinstall won't make it go away. I can buy a new MB, but what if that one has the same problem. A very unpleasant situation.

What do you mean exactly when you say "i get the disconnects even without DCS running." ?

Does your DCS is not running at all? In that case you can't have input creations in DCS logs.

Or did you noticed disconnection in usb viewer tool? (which everyone here doesn't experienced)

Yeah when i leave the USB logger running, not playing DCS at all, i get the USB devices disconnect/reconnect every now and then. If you search the web there are other people having the same issue, completely non-DCS related.

Yeah when i leave the USB logger running, not playing DCS at all, i get the USB devices disconnect/reconnect every now and then. If you search the web there are other people having the same issue, completely non-DCS related.

You have a real issue with usb ports then. In your case the problem will happened for every games.

But in my case, as the others players reported, its not a USB issue. Its seems to be more sneaky.

I also found out that when switching from windows screen to full screen there are input creation in the logs of all my usb devices (despite no disconnection is recorded in the usb log view). Also, as i said previously it doesn't make sense that my keyboard can be disconnected-reconnected since my PC is a laptop!

The question to ask now is why there are inputs creations when switching from windows view to full screen? Are you experiencing the same when you start DCS in windows mode and then pressing alt+enter?

Coug4r's experience is generally the case for all people. But it doesn't affect other games because other games don't then issue a DirextX reset and stop all actions while they re-allocate all the game controllers due to the disconnect event. That is the DCS problem. I run many other games with all my gear connected (some games using the gear like X-Plane, and other games not). Only DCS pauses for 3-5 seconds. USB Logger continues to show the disconnect even when playing other games, and even when I am just at the desktop. But I don't have issues with any other software, or issues with any devices actually having trouble.

As for the laptop keyboard, it may actually still be USB. It depends on how they made the laptop. For example, laptop cameras are often USB devices connected to an internal hard wired USB hub. You are probably right, though, the keyboard is probably not USB. But the driver that runs it may still treat it like a USB HID device which means it is potentially affected by the issue. My point is, it is more appropriate to think of it as a user I/O device issue (which includes mice, keyboards, USB devices and game controllers, audio cards, etc.). There is a sub-system component of windows that manages all these devices, even if they aren't USB, and the Windows issue originates from there.

I haven't figured out all the possible ways the issue can be triggered, but I think for most of us, the most common way is for a USB device, or an audio jack switch used to detect insertion/removal of a connector to trigger it.

My laptop keyboard is definitely not usb and looks like this.

As mentioned in the device manager it is plugged into a specific keyboard port.

Coug4r's experience is generally the case for all people.

If the people without usb disruption experience the input creation issue as same as those who experience usb disconnection THEN we can conclude that the input creation issue is not related to an USB issue.

If you switch between windows mode to full screen by pressing alt+enter it triggers all the input creation events. There is no reason to recreate inputs at that moment. Then there is no doubt it is a DCS issue. Surprised? no...

What next then? can we alert ED about that?

I'm sure they'll monitor this thread, it's a pretty annoying issue.

One more thing you can try what you didn't mention is to check all Power management tabs for the HID devices in device manager. Just like a lot of USB devices it has this 'Allow the computer to turn off...' checkbox so make sure it's unchecked for all HID devices. I did this like 2 months ago and now that i've checked today 3 were back on again, thanks m$.

I wonder if others see the same event fire when the disconnects occur, either with or without DCS running. If you remember the exact PC time it happens and check Event viewer and look under Windows Logs->Security and check if you see a similar event at that exact time then we might be on to something.

The recreation of the input devices might indeed not be needed when you alt-enter although the closing and recreation of an input device should happen in the blink of an eye so you shouldn't even notice it.

When these ghost dis-reconnects occur it might not be necessary to close and recreate input devices but someone may also just change ports for a joystick for example and in that case it is necessary to close and recreate the input device. There's no way DCS can distinct between one and the other so i guess ED just went for the safest method which will always work. Compared to these ghost dis-reconnects, which can take a couple of seconds, closing and recreating a device shouldn't be the issue.

Also seeing this event, maybe it's related https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/9054b832-d001-4543-b3b0-bcbb729d5f24/esediskflushconsistency-win10-1709?forum=win10itprogeneral

One more thing you can try what you didn't mention is to check all Power management tabs for the HID devices in device manager.

I already did it too.

I wonder if others see the same event fire when the disconnects occur, either with or without DCS running. If you remember the exact PC time it happens and check Event viewer and look under Windows Logs->Security and check if you see a similar event at that exact time then we might be on to something.

I manage this with usb log viewer, and i never got a usb disconnection despite the input creation by DCS.

recreation of an input device should happen in the blink of an eye so you shouldn't even notice it.

Its not the case since it lags like hell when it happens.

Compared to these ghost dis-reconnects, which can take a couple of seconds, closing and recreating a device shouldn't be the issue.

I confirm at 100% that these huge lags happened because of the input creation. I watch the dcs log in real time and lags are 100% correlated with input creations. AND again I (like many others) dont have usb disconnection.

Since this inputs creations are also triggered when pressing alt+enter this issue is more related on how ED developed the game. Windows has nothing to do in it i think.

If DCS offered an option to deactivate the input creation during the game, we would be all fine.

How can we alert DCS on that?

Hey guys,

Sorry to hear you are experiencing the same nasty issues.

I have asked many times for a feature to turn off the hot plug function, but unfortunately it seems like the moderators and ED Team is completely ignoring this thread for a long time.....

In 2.5 the issue was gone completely for a month, until the last update it is back again.

As long as nobody from ED seems to reply to us here I feel this might be a problem for many more moons to come....

I even provided all requested logs and dxdiag but still no reply from moderators and ED.

Good luck fellas!

In 2.5 the issue was gone completely for a month

I don't think so. This has not been corrected as far as i saw even before the last update.

i just report it to ED:

subject: "Input creation" causing lags to many DCS users

 

I would like to catch your attention on an issue which is causing huge lags on performances in both DCS version 1.5 and 2.5. It concerns the "input creation" of devices such as keyboard, joystick, camera and so on. This has been reported and discussed on the forum here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3435321#post3435321. The issue is not related with windows since i never get usb disconnexion. In the end, we think the problem could be solved if an option was provided in order to deactivates the input creations during the game. Could you please participate to the thread i provided in this message so your customers will be happy again ! Thank you.

 

In attach files you can find my dcs log. You'll see that many input creation were done causing my game freezing. This issue is also triggered when doing pressing alt+enter to switch in full screen.

If you feel really concern about this problem you should report it too at https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/fr/support

Hi all,

 

I have highlighted this thread to the team.

 

Personally I am not seeing the issues that you have reported.

Thank you very much for catching ED attention.

Indeed, not everyone seems concerned about it. As someone said here, some players are not even aware about this problem thinking its a performance issue. But for those who are, we tried all the tricks we possibly could in windows, even buying usb ports for some users and so on, but nothing worked. And its really blocking us, its not a small lag but a complete freeze for very long seconds and every 10-20 min. Everything as already been well documented in the thread for more details.

We hope ED will find a solution soon such as an option to deactivate the input creation during the game.

TY

i just report it to ED:

 

The issue is not related with windows since i never get usb disconnexion

 

For others this IS more likely a Windows issue, the USB device disconnects occur without DCS running. By now it's a well known Windows (10) issue:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-hardware/usb-devices-keeps-disconnecting-reconnecting/7e7c792e-04f1-489d-a735-a8b74a7314b5

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-3057703/mouse-headset-keyboard-disconnecting.html

and the list goes on and on.

Let's hope ED can find a culprit and/or solution (and inform us)...

For others this IS more likely a Windows issue, the USB device disconnects occur without DCS running.

Again me and many others have no USB disconnexion and has been confirmed monitoring with the usb log view tool. As i said in a previous post here:

We can split this problem in at least 2 categories: those who experience usb disconnection and those who are not (like me and others).

If the people without usb disruption experience the input creation issue as same as those who experience usb disconnection THEN we can conclude that the input creation issue is not related to an USB issue.

If you switch between windows mode to full screen by pressing alt+enter it triggers all the input creation events. There is no reason to recreate inputs at that moment.

Windows 10 is fairly sensitive for USB power and CPU load about USB detection.

Like with a Oculus VR if you have a all sensors and HMD and then HOTAS in same USB card, the heavy CPU load will disconnect the HOTAS but keeps all else running.

So something is in the Windows 10 HID driver that allows it to be disconnected for a moment.

Windows 10 is fairly sensitive for USB power and CPU load about USB detection.

Like with a Oculus VR if you have a all sensors and HMD and then HOTAS in same USB card, the heavy CPU load will disconnect the HOTAS but keeps all else running.

 

So something is in the Windows 10 HID driver that allows it to be disconnected for a moment.

Im running on windows 8.1 and im not concerned with usb sensitivity despite the input creation in DCS.

I have been flying DCS in the same Windows 10 PC for about 4 years. This repeated re-initialisation started around Jun 2016, at about the same time that DCS introduced the hot-plug-in capability. Prior to then, there was no re-initialisation, after that it happens on just about every sortie of more than an hour or so.

It is possible that MS made some changes to Windows at about that time. But, on the circumstantial evidence thatI have, my money is on the DCS change.

The most frustrating aspect is ED’s unwillingness to acknowledge that it has even noticed that there is an apparent problem.