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Old 04-12-2018, 06:58 PM   #11
Pasquale1986
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I also own all WWII fighters, but my vote goes to the Spit. The FM is superb and it’s a very rewarding plane to fly when you fly her correctly. In my experience it forces you to fly the way it’s supposed. Ground handling is a personal tast i have to say, since i enjoy it the most in the Spit. I fly Cessna IRL and i have a very authentic feeling in the spit even without force feedback - basically what the 109 offers to streakeagle. In the end, everything is highly subjective. With the spit i have to suggest a joystick with an extension. Without it feels a bit to touchy on the elevator controls without adjusting the axis curve of your stick.

Cheers an have fun with the props ;-)
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:06 PM   #12
Europa
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I bought the Bf109 and able to test it. To my surprise the aircraft is too much tail heavy and I cant fly it without the trimming all the way to the "nose down" position +2. I dont think that is normal. This makes me think that I am either doing something wrong or there is something with my plane configuration. I made sure that gear and flaps are retracted. Any ideas?

Last edited by Europa; 04-12-2018 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:10 AM   #13
xvii-Dietrich
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How much fuel do you have? Are you loaded up with external stores? Also wondering if you have correct engine power, boost, etc.?
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:11 AM   #14
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OP is a difficult question because individuals sometimes throw out a plane based on something unique to it, for example the 109 is quite uncomfortable on the grip flying at an odd speed it's not trimmed for because you have to wrestle with it's stick more and it doesn't fly hands off. P51 can be very comfortable, it can trim out almost perfectly. You have PvP considerations, flight characteristics, features, damage modelling current and future. I see the 190 is a favourite, I like it less because of the high wheel base and the automation, it's like a BMW car. 190 is the one I kept going back to of all four, over my lifelong favourite Spitfire, because of it's power, the cannon and it's feature and interesting engine governer, especially the manual setting which makes it quite awesome to "tune" and gives a very advanced feeling of interaction. The flare gun can be super useful too.
All the modules are not easily comparable from a deeper view, which is good, because you will find new things, but I'll just leave this here:
Me-109.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:29 PM   #15
Andryl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa View Post
I bought the Bf109 and able to test it. To my surprise the aircraft is too much tail heavy and I cant fly it without the trimming all the way to the "nose down" position +2. I dont think that is normal. This makes me think that I am either doing something wrong or there is something with my plane configuration. I made sure that gear and flaps are retracted. Any ideas?
It is intended and modelled as the real aircraft. Pls, read the following post by Yo-yo (or the whole thread: it's interesting)

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...2&postcount=14

Plus, I'm still learning to fly it, but with the correct cruise power I find it comfortably flyable with +1 trim.

EDIT:
The manual gives different values for Cruise power settings:
- At page 112 (Operating data) it reads:
Cruise Parameters (with climb and combat power):
RPM (auto prop pitch): 2,550 – 2,600
Boost pressure (auto prop pitch): 1.45 ATA


- At page 132 (Standard procedure - Cruise) it reads:
Optimal Cruise Speed: 420 km/h TAS
RPM (auto prop pitch): 2,550 – 2,600
Boost pressure (auto prop pitch): 1.35 ATA


- At page 131 it reads:
Set RPM and Supercharger Pressure to Cruise setting (2,400 ± 65, RPM at 1.25 ATA)

Personally I find this last setup the most handling one

- Moreover at page 139 (Landing procedure):
Use the Horizontal Stabilizer Trim Handwheel to trim the aircraft for level flight in the flaps-down configuration. Rough guideline is around the -3 position.

She becomes very nose-heavy with landing gear extended and flaps down, therefore the "tail-heavy" characteristic you told becomes very handy during landing.
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Last edited by Andryl; 04-13-2018 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:34 PM   #16
Ala13_ManOWar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa View Post
I bought the Bf109 and able to test it. To my surprise the aircraft is too much tail heavy and I cant fly it without the trimming all the way to the "nose down" position +2. I dont think that is normal. This makes me think that I am either doing something wrong or there is something with my plane configuration. I made sure that gear and flaps are retracted. Any ideas?
That's how she is supposed to be. Beyond 450-500 Km/H there is no trim in order to allow high speed dives recovery. Anyway, cruising @1.15Ata will help flying hands off @450Km/H and you have a tab in the options with ailerons and tail fixed trim tabs settings.


S!
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Old 04-13-2018, 03:32 PM   #17
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Hi Europa. The plane is indeed tail heavy, and while it is more than manageable, it will never be a hands off plane. Even in cruise flight, the best you can expect is to require "minimal" input to maintain stable flight.

As you are new to the plane, I am going to assume, however, that your concern with trim is related less to cruise flight, and more to the aircrafts behavior when rotating out of the takeoff roll. As I recall from when I was learning the plane, my initial attempts were, to put it mildly, a struggle. It was not uncommon for me to takeoff, immediately stall a wing, and either bury myself in the dirt, or at best make a very ugly and uncoordinated maneuver that allowed me to get airborne (sometimes after sustaining some landing gear damage from smacking it into the ground).

Things I learned were:

1. I set trim to full nose down. I pull fully back on stick and slightly right stick it and give full right rudder before even starting my roll.

2. Do not takeoff under full power. I evolved to where I now start my roll around 1.2 ata, and once rolling I push that up to 1.35-1.4 ata.

3. Once she's rolling and I'm at 1.35-1.4 ata, my focus is almost entirely on managing the turn and bank needle. The sooner you counter any departure there, the easier it is to keep her straight. I'll also release the stick pull back once she's gaining speed and rudder authority.

4. Once up to speed, be ready on the stick. She will fly herself off the runway, and it this point I'm ready to manager her with some small stick pressure as necessary to keep her from any tendency to pitch up.

5. I find giving her a slight kick of forward stick to raise the tailwheel prior to takeoff allows her to gain more speed before rotating, which minimizes the stick effort needed as she goes airborne.

There are a number of great videos online that I learned from when I was getting my hands around this plane, and I highly recommend them as they show procedures way better than I could manage to describe.

Hope this helps.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:26 PM   #18
Andryl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ala13_ManOWar View Post
That's how she is supposed to be. Beyond 450-500 Km/H there is no trim in order to allow high speed dives recovery. Anyway, cruising @1.15Ata will help flying hands off @450Km/H and you have a tab in the options with ailerons and tail fixed trim tabs settings.


S!
This (well, maybe not completely hands off, but very light inputs needed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KorovaMB View Post
Hi Europa. The plane is indeed tail heavy, and while it is more than manageable, it will never be a hands off plane. Even in cruise flight, the best you can expect is to require "minimal" input to maintain stable flight.

As you are new to the plane, I am going to assume, however, that your concern with trim is related less to cruise flight, and more to the aircrafts behavior when rotating out of the takeoff roll. As I recall from when I was learning the plane, my initial attempts were, to put it mildly, a struggle. It was not uncommon for me to takeoff, immediately stall a wing, and either bury myself in the dirt, or at best make a very ugly and uncoordinated maneuver that allowed me to get airborne (sometimes after sustaining some landing gear damage from smacking it into the ground).

Things I learned were:
...
Since some time ago, I found it so difficult to manage during take offs and landings, that I started to think: "I'll never manage to tame her!"
But after I found a post of Ala13_ManOWar that linked the following article:
http://vintageaviationecho.com/bf109e/

I read it, plus three essays:
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179253
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179314
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179455

And everything changed. I cannot recommend enough them: there are really tons of precious hints.
Now I'm starting to love the Bf-109 and to find her very rewarding.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:53 PM   #19
Ala13_ManOWar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andryl View Post
This (well, maybe not completely hands off, but very light inputs needed)
Well, you're right, any prop driven aircraft will be absolutely hands off, but one can have some spare time from time to time in the piloting task with a good enough trimming and engine setting is what I meant .


Glad to be any helpful mate .


With regards to the trimming, take a look at the gorgeous pics in the article,

http://vintageaviationecho.com/bf109e/

You'll see how despite being flying relatively slow to catch the leading aircraft for the pics, the stabiliser (which is marked with lines in the root) is almost in full nose heavy trim in several pics. And that's an Emil, not a 1800HP K4…


S!
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