wiggle at trim releasing

yes i know, yet another trim thread. But i need your help. I watched all the videos on youtube, did the tutorial ingame and read the simhq pages, but i still have a problem.

 

With FD disabled, Pitch,Bank,HDG enabled, i hold the trimmer and lets say bringe the nose 10° down. Everything is stable, but now if im releasing the trimmer, the shark brings the nose down even further and i dont know why.

I checked the settings and its on "middle after trim"

Depends on what trimer mode you have in settings.

If it is "return to center" ("middle after trim" as you call it) you need to return your stick to center realy quickly (!) after releasing the button. Its possible to increase the time by editing a number in a lua file (cannot remember which).

If you use "... without spring and FFB" you rather should click the trimer frequently (!) from slightly before you move the stick untill after your helicopter has settled in a stable attitude. In my opinion use the same method if you use a FFB stick.

Whatever method you use, you need a lot of practice to get it (kinda) smooth.

Depends on what trimer mode you have in settings.

If it is "return to center" ("middle after trim" as you call it) you need to return your stick to center realy quickly (!) after releasing the button. Its possible to increase the time by editing a number in a lua file (cannot remember which).

If you use "... without spring and FFB" you rather should click the trimer frequently (!) from slightly before you move the stick untill after your helicopter has settled in a stable attitude. In my opinion use the same method if you use a FFB stick.

Whatever method you use, you need a lot of practice to get it (kinda) smooth.

 

 

 

Well, my client is german.. i think the setting is called "Center position after trim" its the 2nd option.

 

The timebased option should be "standard" i guess.

Edited December 2, 2017 by MarkP

As Holton181 suggested, make sure you centre your stick as quickly as possible after trimming. If you push nose down, for example by 10 degrees, then trim but don't centre your stick what is happening is that you are now adding an additional 10 degrees to the "trimmed" position (i.e your joysticks centre).

MarkP, yes you are right. I confused them, didn't sit at my computer when writing, stil don't.

Anyhow, for the default you need to be fast.

For the "timeless" centering option I only know you need to be within a rather small radious from the center with your stick to get the control of your helicopter back. I have basicaly never used that method. But I guess even if the radious is small, your stick will be slightly forward to dead center when getting the control back and due to that your nose will pitch further down. Only guesswork.

 

If I understand you correctly, you do have that "timeless" centering selected in options right?

But your nose go further down immediately when you release the button, not when you return it to center, right?

Try not to press the button when moving your stick, only click it when you have a stable attitude and center it. I believe holding the button with this option might mess up things.

Check your calibration in Windows. Had a similar problem: Everytime I centered the stick after trimming the shark went into a dive.

after recalibrating it in Windows it was gone.

Hi Guys,

im not a nativ speaker so its hard to explain but ill give it another try, maybe this twitch clip helps:

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/RudeFilthyPlumageBlargNaut

 

at 0:19 i move the joystick to pitch down, at 0:20 i click the trimmer to set the just-obtained-pitch and you can see that the pitch drastically increases at that moment. Why is this? It happens instantly as you can see.

 

In the clip its not that much of a problem because the additional pitch is not harmful but i think its not right. Waht am i doing wriong?

 

Thanks, have a peaceful 1rst advent.

Mark

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/RudeFilthyPlumageBlargNaut

 

at 0:19 i move the joystick to pitch down, at 0:20 i click the trimmer to set the just-obtained-pitch and you can see that the pitch drastically increases at that moment. Why is this? It happens instantly as you can see.

 

What you need to do is press trimmer first and hold until you've made your correction, then release trimmer.

What you need to do is press trimmer first and hold until you've made your correction, then release trimmer.

He has, if I'm not mistaken, the "return to center" trim option enabled, the one where you lose control at trim click until you return the stick to center. In that case I believe holding the button will mess things up.

I might be wrong though, I don't use that method myself.

Hi Guys,

im not a nativ speaker so its hard to explain but ill give it another try, maybe this twitch clip helps:

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/RudeFilthyPlumageBlargNaut

 

at 0:19 i move the joystick to pitch down, at 0:20 i click the trimmer to set the just-obtained-pitch and you can see that the pitch drastically increases at that moment. Why is this? It happens instantly as you can see.

 

In the clip its not that much of a problem because the additional pitch is not harmful but i think its not right. Waht am i doing wriong?

 

Thanks, have a peaceful 1rst advent.

Mark

In the control indicator I can see that you make a small input forward after clicking. The cyclic is sensitive, very small movements will be noticeable in attitude.

What you need to do is press trimmer first and hold until you've made your correction, then release trimmer.

 

i also tried that method, but the same happens

 

In the control indicator I can see that you make a small input forward after clicking. The cyclic is sensitive, very small movements will be noticeable in attitude.

 

yes, that is exactly the problem. I didnt move the stick at this moment at all. I keept it rock steady. Its a system that made the input but i dont know what it is. :(

 

yes, that is exactly the problem. I didnt move the stick at this moment at all. I keept it rock steady. Its a system that made the input but i dont know what it is. :(

 

Try trimming after smaller attitude adjustments. Ten degrees at once is a lot for the stability augmentation channels to keep up with without the deviation you are experiencing.

Just hold the trim button, move the stick, once the aircraft settles into an equilibrium then release trim and immediately center the controls.

 

If the same thing happens then I think you're looking at a calibration issue or something to that effect. Let me go give this a try and I'll let you know what mine does.

Aright just did some testing...

 

You're pressing the trimmer and releasing it, then moving the stick forward, then pressing and releasing the trimmer again.

 

You can hear it in the vid you posted too. Maybe you have a control malfunction and/or config issue with your trim button? Either you aren't holding it or it isn't holding the command when you're holding the button.

 

When I press, release, move stick, press, release I get the same effect as you.

 

When I press trim, move stick, release trim, center stick it's perfectly smooth. Or very close anyway... but it certainly doesn't add the stick deflection twice. It just bumps forwards a tiny bit if I don't center my stick quickly.

 

You can check for yourself also... Hold the stick at a slight off center, watch the stick in the cockpit and just keep tapping the trim button. It continuously moves farther and farther off center.

Guys, he doesn't use the default trimer mode, he use the one where he has all the time in the world to return to center but without control during that time. He is the first I know of that use it, so it's not strange that we try to instruct him for another method.

So, I believe the press-n-hold method isn't valid here.

I think my problem is missunderstood in a way :D

Hard to explain for me and non of the tips so far helped :(

Go into Controls / Axis Assign / Axis tune for your flight stick. You might see that flight stick moves around a little because of sensitivity. Add a small dead zone to X and Y axis and see if that makes it go away.

https://clips.twitch.tv/RudeFilthyPlumageBlargNaut

 

at 0:19 i move the joystick to pitch down, at 0:20 i click the trimmer to set the just-obtained-pitch and you can see that the pitch drastically increases at that moment. Why is this? It happens instantly as you can see.

 

This is normal. It happens because the autopilot is continuously actuating to help keeping the heli still. When you press the trim button, part of the autopilot actuation stops instantly, resulting in sudden unwanted heli movement. This is unavoidable, you can only lessen it by trimming after small inputs only, and trimming very frequently. Or you can turn off autopilot or turn on Flight Director mode.

 

What created confusion in this thread is that in your 1st post (and thread title) you said that the wiggle occurs at trim releasing, which isn't true, it occurs at trim pressing which is when it's supposed to occur. There should be no wiggle at trim releasing, only at trim pressing, if you use the "Central Position Trimmer Mode".

MarkP your problem is not misunderstood.

 

You are pressing and releasing the button twice. You can hear it at 15 seconds and at 20 seconds. You hear two clicks at each time. When you press the trimmer button it clicks once. When you release it it clicks once.

 

I can recreate exactly what you're seeing if I tap the trim button, move the stick forwards, then tap the trim button again in central trimmer mode OR DEFAULT TRIM MODE. The trim mode doesn't matter for this issue. The trim method is the issue here.

 

 

Like I said...

 

Press the trim.

 

Move the stick.

 

Release the trim and immediately center the stick.

 

 

If that is what you're doing... then you have a controller config issue where it's doing a press/release when you press and when you release.

 

You can hear the button being pressed and released twice. Actually three times... but the other is earlier and doesn't cause the issue because the stick is already very close to center.

 

Test this for yourself (in central trimmer or default trimmer modes...)...

 

Move the stick to the left a bit... now... tap the trim button ten times while leaving the stick where it's at. The stick will deflect further and further each time you tap the trimmer.

 

 

What you're seeing is that you're tapping the trimmer with a largish deflection from it's currently trimmed point. This causes the trim to think you want the stick moved twice as far BUT... You let go of the trimmer and the stick and the AP channels have an attitude and a stick position that are a good distance apart. The AP channels then mostly correct the stick position to maintain the trimmed attitude.

 

This is why you don't use trim tapping unless you want to constantly just tap, tap tap taptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptpatpatatpatptapatptpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpatpta all the time :)..... That sucks. Some people are used to it and this may even be the way the Russians do it...

 

I don't care.

 

It still sucks.

 

Press trim. Move stick. Release trim and stick with trim release being just prior to stick release/center.

Edited December 5, 2017 by M1Combat