PTID and Sparrowhawk

Don't take it too personally Wizard. Heatblur have already answered this question as they have no plans to put development resources towards these features for the Bombcat since they saw limited use, and would rather spend the time developing the F-14D instead. I tried to find the original post but it's buried in here somewhere. They did express an interest to eventually make the D Cat. So all hope is not lost on a more capable strike platform.

I don’t understand the pushback I’m getting here...having a later version would give people more content and more sim potential.

 

And we’re getting a F-14A for those who want an older version. The F-14B is inconic for A2G capability. Yet the version we’re getting is only a taste of what these upgrades allowed it too do. And doesn’t represent the majority of B cats

Wanting it is understood- I took it that you were criticizing the era and model they decided upon and called it not accurate. I'm very excited for this module. I joined the Navy in 1996, and saw many F-14s on their way to/from Key West while stationed at NAS Pensacola. The daily Blue Angels practice didn't hold a candle to a motivated F-14 entering the break- imagine being able to identify the jets by their sound- and calibrating your snap look to be much further away from the sound if it was an F-14 and the motors sounded wet and the doppler effect moved quick. Tree-line, wings swept- what looked like a wing tip touching the treeline in a knife edge pass into a break and jet just settles into a cozy wings spread landing...… wish I had a GoPro back then lol.

Yeah definitely not trying to disrespect the devs, or say it’s inaccurate. Just wish we had a newer model F-14B. I’m a hornet person myself. So I’m Just starting to learn about the tomcat in depth. In the middle of reading F-14A Natops right now.

I actually like the idea of an upgraded B over D since I’ve heard some pilots say they preferred F-14B because it’s lighter, and with PTID you have nearly as much capability, plus I also just like the old cockpits better. Just imho.

But I’ll be happy with whatever we get, the F-14 is incredible.

The APG-71 had some much more capable air to air capabilities- the IRST was insane at detection in its element, and you had LINK-16 and NCTR. You couldn't touch a Ds airspace.

The APG-71 had some much more capable air to air capabilities- the IRST was insane at detection in its element, and you had LINK-16 and NCTR. You couldn't touch a Ds airspace.

I didn’t know it had NCTR capability, I thought that was just an F-15 thing, amazing.

It also had DFCS which made it much less temperamental, or so I’ve heard. Does anyone here know how IRST was actually used? Is it just slaved to the radar or does it have independent search ability?

Also how is it displayed, is it antenna elevation or B Scope?

I mean is just like an IR TCS or could it be used like the Russian IRSTs, does it require an established track file?

I didn’t know it had NCTR capability, I thought that was just an F-15 thing, amazing.

 

It also had DFCS which made it much less temperamental, or so I’ve heard. Does anyone here know how IRST was actually used? Is it just slaved to the radar or does it have independent search ability?

 

Also how is it displayed, is it antenna elevation or B Scope?

 

I mean is just like an IR TCS or could it be used like the Russian IRSTs, does it require an established track file?

Some good description of how it works in the link in this post:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3708144&postcount=12

Wanting it is understood- I took it that you were criticizing the era and model they decided upon and called it not accurate. I'm very excited for this module. I joined the Navy in 1996, and saw many F-14s on their way to/from Key West while stationed at NAS Pensacola. The daily Blue Angels practice didn't hold a candle to a motivated F-14 entering the break- imagine being able to identify the jets by their sound- and calibrating your snap look to be much further away from the sound if it was an F-14 and the motors sounded wet and the doppler effect moved quick. Tree-line, wings swept- what looked like a wing tip touching the treeline in a knife edge pass into a break and jet just settles into a cozy wings spread landing...… wish I had a GoPro back then lol.

I do regret not having a camera with me whenever I visited Va Beach and would watch A-6s and F-14s do touch and gos at Oceana. You could feel an F-14 when it took off and the A-6 had an ear-piercing sound.

some AWG-9 sets in the early 1980s were modified for NCTR when the system started testing with APG-63on the F-15. However it was deemed too expensive to the very expensive tomcat program and not seen as necessary for blue water missions so it was cancelled. I do not know if the systems were then downgraded to match the other AWG-9 sets in the fleet or not.

IRST, TCS, and radar could all be operated independently or slaved but it is all done from the RIOs seat only IIRC. Pilots can watch but not control the sensors.

The A they are doing is very representative of F-14As But the B they’re doing is just a re-engined F-14A which while accurate, doesn’t highlight any other new things the B was able too do.

 

What I’m saying is; right now we basically are gonna get the exact same aircraft with different engines.

The "B"/A+ with the rigged LANTIRN was exactly the switch from Fleet Defender to Strike Aircraft. A very good choice, as the effort for a "late B" version is better invested into a full flegded D model, later.

A+ and B present the change from a pure fighter/interceptor role to a flexible strike aircraft, and the rigged LANTIRN was key to roles like FAC(A), CAS, XCAS and SCAR.

I am pretty happy with Heatblur's choice here.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=204752

 

They would have, PTID got to the fleet in 97

Goodness - to say something isn't representative one would have to throw a dart at a calendar on the wall to be specific. No disrespect, but this F-14A/B is "unrealistic" of when exactly?

 

Feel free to add to this:

1) Early F-14A

2) F-14A TARPS

3) F-14B

4) F-14A with LANTIRN

5) Early F-14D

6) F-14B (U) Upgrade (<--Sparrowhawk is here)

7) F-14D (U)

8 - Very Last F-14As (VF-154 with PTID mostly)

There was more to the upgrade then just higher resolution. They wanted to turn the F-14 into a Strike Fighter, while it could carry the pod and bombs initially; the upgrade optimized it for that role.

 

PTID allowed for digital integration with the pylons. Paving the way for an expanded A2G capability like JDAMs for example. It also found its way to F-14As as well.

PTIDS was crucial, when JDAMs got the weapons of choice...

IRST, TCS, and radar could all be operated independently or slaved but it is all done from the RIOs seat only IIRC. Pilots can watch but not control the sensors.

I believe you're right.

At the least in Aerosoft's F-14X, those controls are represented at the RIO's Left Side Console.

(Link below, post #38.)

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=142408&page=4

Don't know the full extent to which the pilot can control anything or not though.

We don't get JDAM

This. Because we’re getting a 1996 something F-14B

This. Because we’re getting a 1996 something F-14B

The majority of JDAMs dropped by the NAVY were employed by F/A-18 and F-14D.

There was no magical rollout of PTID to ALL F-14 in 1997, even then they couldn't just drop JDAM.

...and just saying: JDAM is pretty boring. Fly 30k feet, above cloud cover, drop and return to base.

I favor the way they give us a F-14B in its prime, and maybe later get a true digital F-14D with all the bells and whistles, instead of weak compromises to make a time-period-mixed-perfect-plane.

Just my opinion. Anyway, the decisions on avionics, equipment, weapons and LANTIRN has been taken long ago...

No, because even in 2003 the rigged A was assigned to VF-211in OIF and still not cleared for JDAM, the F-14D were and only for the GBU-32... Even the F-14D was cleared for GBU-38 very late.

 

The majority of JDAMs dropped by the NAVY were employed by F/A-18 and F-14D.

There was no magical rollout of PTID to ALL F-14 in 1997, even then they couldn't just drop JDAM.

 

...and just saying: JDAM is pretty boring. Fly 30k feet, above cloud cover, drop and return to base.

 

I favor the way they give us a F-14B in its prime, and maybe later get a true digital F-14D with all the bells and whistles, instead of weak compromises to make a time-period-mixed-perfect-plane.

 

Just my opinion. Anyway, the decisions on avionics, equipment, weapons and LANTIRN has been taken long ago...

Fair enough, I just want all the bells and whistles in the B. G and speed limits aside.

I realize in 1997 the ENTIRE fleet did not receive PTID but that's when the retrofitting started. By the same logic, the entire fleet did not receive LANTIRN in 96 yet ours will have it

But I suppose I could settle for the F-14D. I Just want the most advanced version of every aircraft we get in DCS as much as possible, available documentation and licensing considered.

All the same I'm happy we're getting the F-14 period

Fair enough, I just want all the bells and whistles in the B. G and speed limits aside.

 

I realize in 1997 the ENTIRE fleet did not receive PTID but that's when the retrofitting started. By the same logic, the entire fleet did not receive LANTIRN in 96 yet ours will have it

 

But I suppose I could settle for the F-14D. I Just want the most advanced version of every aircraft we get in DCS as much as possible, available documentation and licensing considered.

All the same I'm happy we're getting the F-14 period

To "remove" the PTID upgrade is not so easy.

I guess we will all have tremendous fun with the Tomcat... I am reading through so much interesting missions they did and how they overcome the limitations, this will keep us occupied for quite a while, with or without JDAM.

It's kind of humorous to see the enthusiasts here demanding to have systems and hardware from day one that crews on the pointy tip of the spear, conducting combat operates didn't have. 55 F14D's were built. 55. That's it.

Perhaps Heatblur should only sell 55 F14D's to their customers, just to give you all a taste of what "realism" is like.

:)

It's kind of humorous to see the enthusiasts here demanding to have systems and hardware from day one that crews on the pointy tip of the spear, conducting combat operates didn't have. 55 F14D's were built. 55. That's it.

 

Perhaps Heatblur should only sell 55 F14D's to their customers, just to give you all a taste of what "realism" is like.

 

:)

But they did have PTID, Sparrowhawk, LANTIRN and F-14D...

Just not all or any in 1996

This is digital combat simulator not 1996 real life. The whole point of simulation IMO is too demonstrate hypothetical scenarios, with realistic Capabilities and systems.

For example the Su-33 never actually met the F-14A in combat, but we can see how that might have looked with a relativity high level of fidelity using the magic of simulation.

But they did have PTID, Sparrowhawk, LANTIRN and F-14D...

 

Just not all or any in 1996

 

This is digital combat simulator not 1996 real life. The whole point of simulation IMO is too demonstrate hypothetical scenarios, with realistic Capabilities and systems.

 

For example the Su-33 never actually met the F-14A in combat, but we can see how that might have looked with a relativity high level of fidelity using the magic of simulation.

This is kind of going round and round in circles.

HB decided long ago what spec of F-14B they were going to model. And as far as I can tell they weren't going to include LANTIRN until relatively recently (only announced in Jan this year) so its certainly a possibility that they had planned to do a pre-PTID jet for whatever reason and then realised afterwards that they could also add LANTIRN and it wouldn't necessarily be unrealistic for a certain time window which we've already discussed.

The ship has sailed, many years of development, artwork, coding etc etc have gone into the product we are getting, so for right now the conversation regarding changing spec is pretty much pointless. They can always add to the product afterwards, in fact I hope they do. So what we are getting serves as a good starting point, IMHO.

It's kind of humorous to see the enthusiasts here demanding to have systems and hardware from day one that crews on the pointy tip of the spear, conducting combat operates didn't have. 55 F14D's were built. 55. That's it.

 

Perhaps Heatblur should only sell 55 F14D's to their customers, just to give you all a taste of what "realism" is like.

 

:)

Just started reading Roger Ball the biography of John "Hawk" Smith and the bit I am at he has just been put on the F14 program... and he has still got 2 years to go before they get an actual airframe

Hurry up and wait :D

...as for the actual JDAM enabling software update for the B. That was around 2001.

They still flew in parallel with A Tomcats, as the A was lighter and could carry home the LGBs if they were not dropped.

So actually a very good idea to combine the A and mid era B versions into one module. The rigged LANTIRN included we can somehow accurate cover a broad range of conflicts from Libya and Iran/Irak in the 80ies, over Kosovo, Desert Storm, OSW to OEF and OIF.

So this has basically come down to what your preferences are to what you like/want. For you the B with all the bells and whistles is the definitive Turkey. For other like me and many others it's 80's/90's A's/A+s that were.

Where the primary role was fleet defence/air superiority, where the tomcat was still very advanced and to many was the supreme aircraft over enemy skies. Not the dying old airframes of the early 2000's that while yes, had more advanced electronics, couldn't do much more than preform long range strike. It pretty much just became a fighter sized B-1B.

So yes, modelling the most advanced variant of an airframe might be nice and fit your wishes, it's not what many think of when looking back on the Tomcat. Heck after all most people will think of the grimey A's of the TOPGUN fame.

Edit -- I'm not accounting the D in this because HB have already addressed this in their future plans and the point of discussion has been around the B.

It's kind of humorous to see the enthusiasts here demanding to have systems and hardware from day one that crews on the pointy tip of the spear, conducting combat operates didn't have. 55 F14D's were built. 55. That's it.

 

Perhaps Heatblur should only sell 55 F14D's to their customers, just to give you all a taste of what "realism" is like.

 

:)