Modern FC3-Level Aircraft Or Not?

They have talked about that recently, I think the word they used in the newsletter was General Flight Model. It was made to sound like it’ll abide by physics

Will FC3 be removed from DCS, offering a discount to its owners to switch to MAC (that would be my preferred choice)?

So if I want to fly the F-15C I have to use MAC, and if I wan't to fly the F/A-18C I have tu use DCS ? I don't see this ...

And I have to play a suplement for flying the F-15C I could already fly before in the same environment.

I pay, no added value, and more limitations in the multiplayer.

Stop the rumors. Nothing is known yet. They can't just kick out the FC3 aircraft from DCS.

Stop the rumors. Nothing is known yet. They can't just kick out the FC3 aircraft from DCS.

It wasn't a rumor, it was more of a petition from nessuno0505 ...

I get his point that as we get more and more full-fi aircraft in DCS the FC3 planes are more and more out of place and well, "cheaty" in multiplayer for a variety of reasons. I think if we get a full-fi SU-27 and/or mig29 and/or Su-25, (i.e. sort of competivie red-air) for full fi then the online server guys will just drop the FC3 planes, but they could still be in DCS. My .02c....

I do not know what they will choose, but since I play full-fi I fly no more FC3 planes; maybe they could make MAC and DCS cross-compatible online, and each server manager could choose if include MAC or do only-MAC / only-full servers. For what I'm concerned, I'd like to get rid of "FC3" from DCS, that I consider a study simulator, but that's only my desire, obviously everyone is free to agree or disagree and my desire is not able to interfere with ED choices.

I do not know what they will choose, but since I play full-fi I fly no more FC3 planes; maybe they could make MAC and DCS cross-compatible online, and each server manager could choose if include MAC or do only-MAC / only-full servers. For what I'm concerned, I'd like to get rid of "FC3" from DCS, that I consider a study simulator, but that's only my desire, obviously everyone is free to agree or disagree and my desire is not able to interfere with ED choices.

Server owners can choose what planes exist on the server, so you could easily have your wish. I think the only reason you have FC3 planes on servers today is that there is no hi-fi versions of redfor planes. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that if tomorrow ED put out a full Fi Su-25T, and Su-33, SU-27, and Mig29, the next day you'd see all FC3 planes vanish from most servers.

I get his point that as we get more and more full-fi aircraft in DCS the FC3 planes are more and more out of place and well, "cheaty" in multiplayer for a variety of reasons. I think if we get a full-fi SU-27 and/or mig29 and/or Su-25, (i.e. sort of competivie red-air) for full fi then the online server guys will just drop the FC3 planes, but they could still be in DCS. My .02c....

Not sure what you are on about in regards to them being "cheaty". Very interested in your reasons.

Because they all have PFM now, so they are not "easier" to fly or anything.

Yes, you don't have to click switches in the cockpit , but then again, the most important functions for combat are mapped to HOTAS anyway for the full fidelity 4gen blue fighter modules, so thats not really a factor either.

Plus if anything , you are at a disadvantage with the FC3 aircraft, because they are not simulated up to their full capabilities, i.e. broken/incomplete Datalink for the Flanker/Mig-29.

Besides they're dragging on with tons of bugs, some smaller or bigger (ok,which module doesn't ) , so really "cheaty"?? don't think so.

Regards,

Snappy

I don't think MAC planes are full fidelity, wasn't it said to be FC4 which morphed into MAC? what's the point of DCS if they would be full fidelity!!!!

This is one of the basic arguments for MAC. All I ask ED is that they make the two sims compatible enough that DCS and MAC players can share missions and play online together.

I use the mouse on VR, and I don't find it immersion breaking.

 

Of course hand tracking will be better ...

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I'd very much dislike it if they introduced FC3-level aircraft that were more modern than the full-fidelity ones, such as the Eurofighter etc. It'd completely break the game. I wouldn't mind if they added an Su-27SM with mid-2000s tech, for example, but I'd rather they focus their efforts on full-fidelity modules and the core sim, TBH.

FC3 level is the only way to do it, or you're going to be waiting at least 20-30 years for the Russian government to allow it.

 

ED need to revise their policy of not doing any more FC3 level planes.

I hope that was the goal with MAC. If MAC is done in a modular format and features multiplayer compatibility with DCS then that would be a good solution.

Not sure what you are on about in regards to them being "cheaty". Very interested in your reasons.

Because they all have PFM now, so they are not "easier" to fly or anything.

Yes, you don't have to click switches in the cockpit , but then again, the most important functions for combat are mapped to HOTAS anyway for the full fidelity 4gen blue fighter modules, so thats not really a factor either.

 

Plus if anything , you are at a disadvantage with the FC3 aircraft, because they are not simulated up to their full capabilities, i.e. broken/incomplete Datalink for the Flanker/Mig-29.

Besides they're dragging on with tons of bugs, some smaller or bigger (ok,which module doesn't ) , so really "cheaty"?? don't think so.

 

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

The main example I am aware of is in sensors. The SU27 has an IR sensor that will instalock anything in front of it come rain or shine - completely removing the need to fiddle with radars.

And speaking of fiddling with radars - as the FC3 ones aren't simulated it is a much more 'gamified' instant lock vs time to lock, and iirc from what I have read (please others with more understanding chip in) the FC3 radars are less prone to 'dropping lock' while maneuvering.

It's not much - but it makes a difference when on the cusp between BVR and (in) ACM modes, especially in MP.

I get his point that as we get more and more full-fi aircraft in DCS the FC3 planes are more and more out of place and well, "cheaty" in multiplayer for a variety of reasons. I think if we get a full-fi SU-27 and/or mig29 and/or Su-25, (i.e. sort of competivie red-air) for full fi then the online server guys will just drop the FC3 planes, but they could still be in DCS. My .02c....

I very much hope this too, or that ED 'dials back' the FC3 sensor systems so they are more in line with the fully simulated sensor systems

Why not something in-between Full fidelity and FC3?

I cannot understand why they cannot give a MiG-29 something more complicated like APU starting, or SOME systems turning on/off rather just one SHIFT+L. It will not be a full fidelity, but more fun to use, and not violate any TOP SECRET DATA.

I think we will get there, Deka has said MFI-55 will be clickable

I very much hope this too, or that ED 'dials back' the FC3 sensor systems so they are more in line with the fully simulated sensor systems

What is there to dial back? The F-15's radar (in DCS) is horrendous.

The F-15's radar (in DCS) is horrendous.

What do you mean by horrendous ? I Like it.

What do you mean by horrendous ? I Like it.

They mean it's probably weaker and less functional than IRL.

They mean it's probably weaker and less functional than IRL.

it also is "cheating" as it can tell friend or foes automatically in real time all the time :music_whistling:

All simplified FC3 radars are a cheat, they magically see every aircraft in the cone at any distance, attitude, diferencial speed, angle, heading or ECM method.

Why not something in-between Full fidelity and FC3?

I cannot understand why they cannot give a MiG-29 something more complicated like APU starting, or SOME systems turning on/off rather just one SHIFT+L. It will not be a full fidelity, but more fun to use, and not violate any TOP SECRET DATA.

The "top sekret" thing is half bunk, at least speaking about older mig29's. The mig29 is the pass around girl of the aviation world, everyone has had her and evaluated her. The basic flight manuals are publicly available and civilians operate and maintain them. Weapons systems stuff is probably a bit harder to get but I'm sure the US has it, or the Germans do and it could FOIA'ed. I personally think the hangup is licensing, or the fact that ED doesn't think it will sell relative to other modules they could do instead.

Thing is that flying FC3 planes in VR sorta sucks since you can't click on stuff. I mean, if they did a mig29 with half the systems that would be cool, but keeping the simplified radar etc? I dunno, I don't think alot of people would really want that either.

All simplified FC3 radars are a cheat, they magically see every aircraft in the cone at any distance, attitude, diferencial speed, angle, heading or ECM method.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

What do you mean by horrendous ? I Like it.

It has noticeably less range than the F-14 and F-18 radars. You can play with the PRF to increase the range (or increase notch resistance a bit) but one of the strong points of the F-15 radar is that it's supposed to automatically do this.

TWS is limited to 4 targets for some reason, it should be 8 as far as I know (and was 8 at one point in time in DCS).

The AAQ modes are also pretty weak, mostly because except for boresight they are sluggish. The lack of Supersearch makes tracking targets between 10 and 15 miles more painful than it should be. We also have no control over the bar pattern, which also makes tracking/locking difficult inbetween BVR and AAQ range if you don't know exactly what altitude to look at.