Real life consequence if you land when the LSO screaming wave off

Ok, since the SC cames out I managed to get a record of 100% fails during case 1 recovery. However some off the time I felt that I was in a good position and kept landing. Well, sometimes I miscalculated and slammed the carrier gracefully. (Hope the NAVY will still gives me proper military burial after those incidents).

I understand that practice makes perfect and the time will comes when I can perform a good case I landing. Still working on it.

What I'm curious to know is what happen IRL when a pilot forced land when the LSO ordered him to wave off. Will they just get a slap in hand? Get demoted? Suspended for 6 months? Or something else?

FNAEB?

That's a good question. I'm curious as to what would happen, too.

He'll end up peeling potatoes for the week.

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Ok, since the SC cames out I managed to get a record of 100% fails during case 1 recovery. However some off the time I felt that I was in a good position and kept landing. Well, sometimes I miscalculated and slammed the carrier gracefully. (Hope the NAVY will still gives me proper military burial after those incidents).

 

I understand that practice makes perfect and the time will comes when I can perform a good case I landing. Still working on it.

 

What I'm curious to know is what happen IRL when a pilot forced land when the LSO ordered him to wave off. Will they just get a slap in hand? Get demoted? Suspended for 6 months? Or something else?

If I undestand it correctly there's no such thing as being "forced to land" when you're waved off. a WO is always a WO, and paddles alweays has the last word. And I think it's context related. Are you a well-liked and earnest nugget who was trying to get aboard after the 3rd straight bolter in blue water ops in a rough night at the boat? You'll probably get chewed down but your career is preserved. Are you the air wing's most detested pilot in the ready rooms and in the air? Things might change... I'm sure GB can fuirther clarify

A Waveoff is as a ultimate "add power" and not just to abort landing.

As I’ve been led to believe, there’s really two categories here. There’s the late wave off where you added max power making every effort to wave off, but it was too late and you snagged a wire. You’ll get a WO with cut or no-grade and maybe a stern talk about flying the ball.

Then there’s the blatant ignoring the LSO and continuing an unsafe approach. That is going to get you grounded...maybe temporary, maybe permanent. That part probably depends on your overall reputation as mentioned above.

This reminds of that PBS documentary, Carrier. As I recall it, a Hornet crew misjudged their fuel status and had to divert to an airport, requiring the squadron having to send out a ground crew etc to prep the plane to return to the boat.

If I recall things correctly, their CO took them off flying duty and started some investigatory "process" [sorry if I have the terminology wrong here]. I wonder what happened to them.

If I recall things correctly, their CO took them off flying duty and started some investigatory "process" [sorry if I have the terminology wrong here]. I wonder what happened to them.

FNAEB.

(For reasons having nothing to do with anything here I needed to learn what happens to troubled Naval Aviators and spent way too much time digging into MILPERSMAN 1610-020 and COMNAVAIRESFOR Instruction 5420.1B and other sleep inducing regulations. No, I've never had anything to do with Naval Aviation other than applying for NFO with my 20/400 vision, so anything I think I know is purely academic)

In other news, my vision is 20/10 now, decades too late.

You should just add power and go around. You always stay on speed tho just in case this happens. Lot worse if you pich up.

Inflight engagement. I was going to go around here...

I had to force the landing, seems more often than not now, the damn boat seems to be running away from me, randomly turns as I am on approach

 

What I'm curious to know is what happen IRL when a pilot forced land when the LSO ordered him to wave off. Will they just get a slap in hand? Get demoted? Suspended for 6 months? Or something else?

This guy kept his career.

https://books.google.se/books?id=zm0jDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq=spitfire+land+carrier+hookless&source=bl&ots=6P7crCtx6J&sig=ACfU3U3swoYV0GT0jO5BwYkW6Ru7MWibKw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiUw_b0qvHpAhXPOpoKHRFPC3EQ6AEwEnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=spitfire%20land%20carrier%20hookless&f=true

Martin "Red" Carmody ... made his first carrier landing on USS Saratoga ina SBD Dauntless. In the tedium of holding overhead, he had turned the Automatic Direction Finder (ADF) to Bob Hopes's radio show ... landing pattern he was not able to turn the volume off ... Crossing the Ramp, Red misstook the LSO's arm waving for a cut ... because he did not feel a tug he braked to a stop. The next thing he knew the LSO was on the wing with his face in Red's screaming at him ... for not only ignoring the waveoff but forgetting to lower his tail hook.

 

Hand-typed abbreviated.

Deliberately ignore the LSO, and not only will you not be flying around the Boat any longer, you won't be flying in the navy any longer. A FNAEB would really be just a formality at that point- getting the paperwork done. CAG would have your wings in his desk drawer about 10 minutes after you un-assed the jet, and you'd be on your way to your new non-flying billet.

It's not like the movies where you get a mulligan and a hi-five for buzzing the tower and making the air boss spill coffee on himself.

This is purely an academic discussion. This does not exist.

On a very infrequent basis, a pilot may not respond during an individual pass. That will be noted in the comments with a box around the ignored command in the LSO comments. That typically warrants a downgrade. This is usually a mental fluke instead of a repeated offense, and never deliberate.

Edit: forgot to mention. A waveoff is never ignored. That one is kind of hard to miss.

Sorry for the (temporary) hijack, one of our watch officers claimed he was in the F-18 pipeline but the vision in one eye went to 20/25 and he got booted. At the time I thought he was full of <waste, nuclear, 1 ea>, but I'm still curious if that's the sort of thing that would get you dropped from the pipeline. In the early/mid 80s. About the time the 18As were coming on line.

I got reminded of this from Mover interviewing Gonky, who said the recruiter tried to get him into the nuke program. Once a nuke, always a nuke. There's no escape. Ever. If you die and your GPA is close enough they send you to the fleet anyway. If your GPA isn't close enough you get a commission first.

Sorry for the (temporary) hijack, one of our watch officers claimed he was in the F-18 pipeline but the vision in one eye went to 20/25 and he got booted. At the time I thought he was full of <waste, nuclear, 1 ea>, but I'm still curious if that's the sort of thing that would get you dropped from the pipeline. In the early/mid 80s. About the time the 18As were coming on line.

 

 

I got reminded of this from Mover interviewing Gonky, who said the recruiter tried to get him into the nuke program. Once a nuke, always a nuke. There's no escape. Ever. If you die and your GPA is close enough they send you to the fleet anyway. If your GPA isn't close enough you get a commission first.

Somebody with 20/25 is eligible so long as the vision is correctable to 20/20.

I personally know several nukes (including nuke school instructors) who transferred to aviation and became F-18 pilots.

Ok, since the SC cames out I managed to get a record of 100% fails during case 1 recovery. However some off the time I felt that I was in a good position and kept landing. Well, sometimes I miscalculated and slammed the carrier gracefully. (Hope the NAVY will still gives me proper military burial after those incidents).

 

I understand that practice makes perfect and the time will comes when I can perform a good case I landing. Still working on it.

 

What I'm curious to know is what happen IRL when a pilot forced land when the LSO ordered him to wave off. Will they just get a slap in hand? Get demoted? Suspended for 6 months? Or something else?

Something nobody has seemed to say here.

You most likely crash into something and DIE.

Always make the DECISION to continue landing, A wave Off or Go Around should be your default plan.

Something nobody has seemed to say here.

 

You most likely crash into something and DIE.

 

Always make the DECISION to continue landing, A wave Off or Go Around should be your default plan.

In non carrier aviation, the saying goes “go arounds are free.” That is absolutely true and a great mindset.

In the carrier environment this is absolutely untrue. An Own Waveoff is a cardinal sin unless in extremis.

Ok, since the SC cames out I managed to get a record of 100% fails during case 1 recovery. However some off the time I felt that I was in a good position and kept landing. Well, sometimes I miscalculated and slammed the carrier gracefully. (Hope the NAVY will still gives me proper military burial after those incidents).

 

I understand that practice makes perfect and the time will comes when I can perform a good case I landing. Still working on it.

 

What I'm curious to know is what happen IRL when a pilot forced land when the LSO ordered him to wave off. Will they just get a slap in hand? Get demoted? Suspended for 6 months? Or something else?

Two things happen:

1) You croak

2) Whenever it rains, the carrier has a pond in the middle of the deck

Actually, you'll probably get chewed out and end up scrubbing dunnies for a few weeks. Never been in the military myself, but I understand that a butt-chewing and some sort of menial and/or degrading job for a while is standard fare when you screw up on the job, and that goes double if you damage and/or destroy any expensive hardware.

If you're a good pilot (and you ARE, if you're flying off a carrier!) then they'll probably let it slide if it only happens once in a while, especially during wartime. Do it more often than you should, and it's butt-chewing time, and I hope you enjoy cleaning toilets. Do it all the time, and you lose your 'license' and get to scrub toilets full-time.

It's sort of the military aviation equivalent of getting too many moving violations on your drivers license.

AD

FEB’d with a resultant loss of wings and almost assuredly separated from the Navy. Formal charges VIA a court martial would be entirely possible. You’d be lucky to get out with something better than “less than honorable”.

It’s a fun question, but we are talking about deadly serious things, when in the real world. Ignoring a wave off not only jeopardizes yourself and your airframe, but who knows how many other lives/airframes on the ship itself.

Very serious stuff.

ETA: I’m assuming the OP meant the pilot just decided ‘naw, I’m landing’ versus some obvious and legit reason this might happen.

FEB’d with a resultant loss of wings and almost assuredly separated from the Navy. Formal charges VIA a court martial would be entirely possible. You’d be lucky to get out with something better than “less than honorable”.

 

It’s a fun question, but we are talking about deadly serious things, when in the real world. Ignoring a wave off not only jeopardizes yourself and your airframe, but who knows how many other lives/airframes on the ship itself.

 

Very serious stuff.

 

ETA: I’m assuming the OP meant the pilot just decided ‘naw, I’m landing’ versus some obvious and legit reason this might happen.

Read post #14 above.

To everyone who says “loss of wings,” well...that just isn’t how this works. There are number of well defined possible outcomes of a FNAEB (not FEB), one of which is a loss of wings. The instruction that defines said outcomes says that loss of wings is due to “disgracing naval aviation.” Being a loose cannon does not meet that criteria.

In a simulator you know that crew members won’t run across the deck and you can set a mission in which no other aircraft uses the boat, so you guess that a waveoff is caused by a bad landing configuration.

In real life, a waveoff could be caused by a foul deck.

Never ignore a wave off. The guy doing it is a pilot. He's at least as good as you, and has a far better view of what's going on. If its a choice between ejecting an aircraft with no fuel left and busting a wave off, you line up and bang out.

lots of opinions not many answers.