Bmh152abc Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Might be a lot to ask, but I’d love to see a Razorback version in the future. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrett_g Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Don’t forget the P-47M and the P-47N!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozon Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 True P-47s are razorbacks. By the time the bubble tops arrived the glory days of the jug in the 8th airforce were over - all fighter groups converted to the cheaper P-51, except 56th FG that stayed with jugs, because they wouldn’t settle for anything smaller. Bubble tops were mostly ground pounders, except P-47M that were exclusive to 56FG (even though their old razorbacks already achieved similar performance as the M a year earlier) and the P47Ns that were sent to the east because only there fuel depots large enough to fuel one existed. It is a shame that when sims model a jug they first go for D-30/40 instead of the truly classic razorbacks that did most of the hard work, both in europe and the east. But hey, I am happy with my new D-30 too :thumbsup: 2 “Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly: - Geoffrey de Havilland. ... well, he could have said it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev2go Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) True P-47s are razorbacks. By the time the bubble tops arrived the glory days of the jug in the 8th airforce were over - all fighter groups converted to the cheaper P-51, except 56th FG that stayed with jugs, because they wouldn’t settle for anything smaller. Bubble tops were mostly ground pounders, except P-47M that were exclusive to 56FG (even though their old razorbacks already achieved similar performance as the M a year earlier) and the P47Ns that were sent to the east because only there fuel depots large enough to fuel one existed. It is a shame that when sims model a jug they first go for D-30/40 instead of the truly classic razorbacks that did most of the hard work, both in europe and the east. But hey, I am happy with my new D-30 too :thumbsup: because it makes more sense for mainstream appeal to have definitive edition of an aircraft, and not an early inferior version of one, since that seems to be a trend. Bubble top canopy jugs also makes sense considering the ww2 theatre is europe 1944-1945, Normandy specifically. SO this is in fact a timeframe where jugs were going to full time ground pounders. Besides considering the competition is like the Bf109K4 and FW190 D9, its good thing its a late jug, because razorback would have been totally outclassed as fighters. TBH even i still prefer the P51 over P47 for a2a dog fighting. I think most are going to use it as a ground pounder. Edited June 9, 2020 by Kev2go Build: Windows 10 64 bit Pro Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, WD 1TB HDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalOni Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I'll put a vote forward for the razorback as well. I don't agree with Kev's assessment that it was inferior. The P-47D-22 and 23 (razorbacks) and the -30 (bubbletop we currently have) were all similar enough that you could technically just take the existing framework and put a razorback model over it with minor changes to some of the FM. The only disadvantage it had was the lack of rearward visibility, but mirrors existed and more importantly, it never stopped the Me-109 pilots from being good in an online PvP environment or in real life. The razorback was faster, more laterally stable, and had better pilot protection. It could still escort bombers and it could still attack ground targets. (I'll ignore briefly the fact that I think its better looking than the bubbletop) Please ED, give us a Razorback and I'm not sure I'll fly anything else. 1 1 The Oni abides, man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigg Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Yeah i would absolutely love a Razorback to 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyager Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I'd love to see a razorback as well at some point. But doing one right would involve a significant amount of new 3D model work, as well as determining exactly how to handle out of spec operation. The early models had very different cockpit layouts. The spec limits become an issue because the early versions were rated for 100 octane, and the known engine limits at the time, but did not have any of the automatic engine limit era that the late models had, and, in some cases could still be run to those later limits without modification. So they need to work through the systems effects of what happens when someone take a P-47D-5, turns on the water and runs the MP up to 72"? Does the engine blow a seal? If the seals between the -21 and the -57 aren't different, is it valid for one to fail when the other holds? Do they just risk the engine going into detonation if they handle the inlet temperatures wrong? What are the right ones? Do they assume that all versions are running on 100 octane gas from the states, or do they model things based on the British 130 gas that they were using in the war? The D-30 has the simplicity that, if you over boost the engine, it dumps pressure on you so you shouldn't be able to run past 64" for any length of time, but ten razorbacks you are that much closer to the hardware, and the model needs to be that much more expansive. That said, a P-47D-5 with all of the various options and refits available would be *really cool*. You get to go from an aircraft that didn't even come with WI to something that could nearly match the D-30's performance, after the prop refit and fuel grade uprate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunzun Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I'd love to see a razorback as well at some point. But doing one right would involve a significant amount of new 3D model work, as well as determining exactly how to handle out of spec operation. The early models had very different cockpit layouts. The spec limits become an issue because the early versions were rated for 100 octane, and the known engine limits at the time, but did not have any of the automatic engine limit era that the late models had, and, in some cases could still be run to those later limits without modification. So they need to work through the systems effects of what happens when someone take a P-47D-5, turns on the water and runs the MP up to 72"? Does the engine blow a seal? If the seals between the -21 and the -57 aren't different, is it valid for one to fail when the other holds? Do they just risk the engine going into detonation if they handle the inlet temperatures wrong? What are the right ones? Do they assume that all versions are running on 100 octane gas from the states, or do they model things based on the British 130 gas that they were using in the war? The D-30 has the simplicity that, if you over boost the engine, it dumps pressure on you so you shouldn't be able to run past 64" for any length of time, but ten razorbacks you are that much closer to the hardware, and the model needs to be that much more expansive. That said, a P-47D-5 with all of the various options and refits available would be *really cool*. You get to go from an aircraft that didn't even come with WI to something that could nearly match the D-30's performance, after the prop refit and fuel grade uprate. I think all the p-47 used the 130 octane fuel but could use the lower grade in continental US (was 95?) for training only. Obviously with the limitations that this fuel imposed. Later in the war came the posibility of the 150octanes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyager Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 I think all the p-47 used the 130 octane fuel but could use the lower grade in continental US (was 95?) for training only. Obviously with the limitations that this fuel imposed. Later in the war came the posibility of the 150octanes. I seem to recall it was the European theater in particular that ended up with 130 octane fuel early,and I want to say it was mostly that it was something the British had developed(?) but I have not even begun to dig into the logistics of how all that happened and who had what when. I would be very surprised if the Soviet P-47's saw any 130 gas on the Eastern Front. All I do know is the planes that were naked at a 58" redline were marked before the aircraft was re-rated for the 130 octane gas. I also had the impression that the 150 octane fuel didn't buy the plane much over the 130 octane gas, until the 'M' and 'N' versions with the larger turbo charger were fielded. You got more speed at lower altitudes because you could run higher boost, but once it got past the critical altitude ended up being largely the same, just due to the available manifold pressure. Granted, since most online combat takes place at low level, I can see that being a significant factor in online play, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowaca Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 +1 to the Razorback...probably D-15 or D-22 would be a good bet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Yes please to a razorback! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-Rock Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 We can dream! I'd love to see a Razorback. (And a high back P-51, too!) 2 Virtual Horsemen - Right Wing (P-51) - 2008... Virtual Ultimate Fighters - Lead (P-47) - 2020... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioneod Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 because it makes more sense for mainstream appeal to have definitive edition of an aircraft, and not an early inferior version of one, since that seems to be a trend. Bubble top canopy jugs also makes sense considering the ww2 theatre is europe 1944-1945, Normandy specifically. SO this is in fact a timeframe where jugs were going to full time ground pounders. Besides considering the competition is like the Bf109K4 and FW190 D9, its good thing its a late jug, because razorback would have been totally outclassed as fighters. TBH even i still prefer the P51 over P47 for a2a dog fighting. I think most are going to use it as a ground pounder. Razorbacks weren't outclassed imo. Performance was pretty much the same as the bubbletops, the main disadvantage was the limited visibility. Razorbacks served until the very end of the war in the ETO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchforusthefoxes Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 it would be pretty amazing to see an N variant, like really awesome but there's no way I think :( 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozon Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Razorbacks weren't outclassed imo. Performance was pretty much the same as the bubbletops, the main disadvantage was the limited visibility. Razorbacks served until the very end of the war in the ETO. True, they were constantly upgraded in the field to match the standards of the new models rolling off of the production lines. Most squadrons operated a mix of razorbacks and bubble tops, some till VE day. “Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly: - Geoffrey de Havilland. ... well, he could have said it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WichitaMODEX Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I'm in for the razorback. I like the bubble top model, but I love the razorback. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotTom Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 True P-47s are razorbacks. By the time the bubble tops arrived the glory days of the jug in the 8th airforce were over - all fighter groups converted to the cheaper P-51, except 56th FG that stayed with jugs, because they wouldn’t settle for anything smaller. Bubble tops were mostly ground pounders. And their glory days in the Ninth Air Force were just beginning. 1 Exceptional engineering...and a large hammer to make it fit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozon Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 And their glory days in the Ninth Air Force were just beginning. True, but the 9th operated a mix of late-model razobacks and bubble tops all the way to the end of the war. 1 “Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly: - Geoffrey de Havilland. ... well, he could have said it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 +1 here on that one. They look great! 2 Spoiler W10-x64 | Z390 Gigabyte Aorus Ultra | Core i7 9700K @ 4.8Ghz | Noctua NH-D15 Corsair 32Gb 3200 | MSI RTX 3080ti Gaming X Asus Xonar AE | TM Hotas Warthog MFG Crosswind pedals | Valve Index Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westr Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Would have preferred the razorback through choice, but I do love this module. It would be a great addition at some point but quite a lot of work involved with the cockpit view as well. 2 RYZEN 7 3700X Running at 4.35 GHz NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080Ti 32gb DDR4 RAM @3200 MHz Oculus CV1 NvME 970 EVO TM Warthog Stick & Throttle plus 11" extension. VKB T-Rudder MKIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badders46 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Bit late to the party but a Razorback Jug would be awesome! Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aernov Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 I'd love to get a late razorback modification in DCS (D-22 or -23, or both). How much difference is there between late razorbacks and already modeled bubble canopy P-47s systems-wise? Will it be too much work to make them? (3D model, aerodynamics, prop controls) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigg Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 I would pretty much sell body parts if it meant we could have a razorback 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 I opened a fresh thread, think the D 20 RE would be a perfect fit. Should be the same as our current Jug, except Dorsal Fin and Bubbletop. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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