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Old 01-26-2018, 01:34 PM   #11
GGTharos
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It isn't maximum range. It's just some range

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Originally Posted by draconus View Post
Even your source does mention MAXIMUM range only. Consider kill range much less than that depending on many conditions. And the F-15C does allow you to launch at any time - you don't have to wait for shoot cue and it's not pointless to do so if you know what you're doing.
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by SinusoidDelta View Post
I’d like to see that.
I could try to make a track. Keep in mind that I really did mean extreme conditions though. Maybe 60000 ft and Mach 4 closure velocity. It was against a MiG-25 at full speed.

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Originally Posted by =4c=Nikola View Post
It was possible back in FC2 or even FC1.12 against non maneuvering tgts
This was in FC3, and yes non maneuvering target.
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Teriander View Post
Is it just me or is the range of the AIM-120C on the F-15 highly inaccurate? Meaning the range is about half on this game than in real life.

For example if a Mig is heading straight for the F-15, the AIM-120C isn't ready to launch until about 15nm from the target. If the target is flying in another direction or running, then the launch range is about 10nm or even less.

According to the U.S. airforce and Raytheon, the AIM-120 has a range to about 20-30nm. That's well within an engagement range. But this game doesn't allow you to engage until the target is less than 20nm flying straight towards you.

Why is that? Is the game's missile range inaccurate? It's called a BVR (Beyond Visual Range) weapon, but this game almost waits till you can see the target before you can use the AIM-120C.

Would love any feedback on this.
Oh gosh, there we go again
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:53 PM   #14
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I really s*k with the Aim120, but that's probably my fault. Yesterday I had a head on fight with a SU27. I aproached at 44k feet at 250 kts IAS. He was at 20nm at 22k feet when I had an RWR warning that he launched. So I launched an AMRAAM and started cranking dropping chaffs. I turned hot, fired again, and again, but he also kept launching. I dove, cranked to the other side, did all I could while keeping him on the radar screen, and kept firing AMRAAMs but none hit. Of course, I was hit by one of his missiles.

PS: no I don't have tackview.
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Old 01-26-2018, 04:12 PM   #15
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Yep they need to fix the win button.
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Old 01-26-2018, 06:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
I really s*k with the Aim120, but that's probably my fault. Yesterday I had a head on fight with a SU27. I aproached at 44k feet at 250 kts IAS. He was at 20nm at 22k feet when I had an RWR warning that he launched. So I launched an AMRAAM and started cranking dropping chaffs. I turned hot, fired again, and again, but he also kept launching. I dove, cranked to the other side, did all I could while keeping him on the radar screen, and kept firing AMRAAMs but none hit. Of course, I was hit by one of his missiles.

PS: no I don't have tackview.
What mode did you use for lock?

If you shot in TWS, then your AIM-120 has big inaccuracy as it gets only few times a update to the target in mid-course, and the radar track is very inaccurate for maneuvering target as it can't get acquired few updates (few seconds between each update) to get more accurate estimation of the location where the target will be or you even can drop the lock if track is wrong, so your AIM-120 is flying with very huge error in it. And you need to keep the target continually locked to keep feeding information without maneuvering too hard yourself.

But in STT mode you would keep constant update of the target, no delays, no lag and AIM-120 has best change to reach the point to acquire target by itself so you can turn away or maneuver even harder.

The difference is very big between TWS and STT how accurate you are. Think it like a strobo beam light at 0.25hz update vs constant beam light and you would need to keep that light pointing a moving target. It is easy if the target movement is predictable as you quickly in few blinks get the pace of the movement, but if the target movement is random, then you are constantly trying to find it again in those short blinks of times.
To make it more realistic, now try to throw something at the target in those two methods and guess which one is easier for you to hit the target?

A good pilot is maneuvering but as well getting distance all the time. As the radars has two tracking gates, primary is the predicted intercept point but then the second gate is the actual location as an backup. So if the target doesn't really move a lot but maneuvers a lot in small area throwing the predicted intercept point all around, primary is then rejected and secondary is used for guidance to get closer. That is one reason why all the quick rolls and quick turns has no benefits as you are not really moving a lot in your area, even when your speed and heading between updates predicts otherwise.

And then comes all the missile maneuvers, as every maneuver missile does causes more drag, so it is wanted that missile maneuvers as little as possible and does only periodically the harder corrections when it is required so there is enough energy, but still not too much, for the terminal phase to do the final maneuvers.
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Old 01-26-2018, 06:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
What mode did you use for lock?

If you shot in TWS, then your AIM-120 has big inaccuracy as it gets only few times a update to the target in mid-course, and the radar track is very inaccurate for maneuvering target as it can't get acquired few updates (few seconds between each update) to get more accurate estimation of the location where the target will be or you even can drop the lock if track is wrong, so your AIM-120 is flying with very huge error in it. And you need to keep the target continually locked to keep feeding information without maneuvering too hard yourself.
Would you like to stop spreading this misinformation now? It's starting to look like you just want people to STT you so that you get that warning.

Everything you've said here is absolutely N/A DCS, and not a big deal in RL either.

Quote:
The difference is very big between TWS and STT how accurate you are.
Zero difference in DCS. TWS is, however, drops contact immediately when notched, which is incorrect.

Quote:
Think it like a strobo beam light at 0.25hz update vs constant beam light and you would need to keep that light pointing a moving target.
Yout know, if you consider that your best ITR is 32deg, just how much change can you affect in 1/4sec, and why would an AMRAAM care?

Again, most of the what you've said is plain N/A in DCS, and in the real world, filters are applied to deal with. Are there drawbacks? Of course there, which is why there are tactics/techniques (eg. you might go STT around pitbull or even earlier). But again ... unless your goal is to ensure than you can enter MEM mode due to the target notching, STT has zero advantages over TWS in DCS.
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Old 01-28-2018, 04:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razo+r View Post
See attached picture:

1400 knots closure speed at 33k feet, maximum launch range just below 40 miles.
I do believe that I have had over 1000kts ground speed before.. Mach 2.5 60k ft..
entirely possible to get close to 2k kts closer rate in this game.

I also want to point out that I've said this before, a family member who flew f15cs has said 20+NM shots with the aim120 are lethal against maneuvering targets. He stated he has shot 20nm against [I believe a q4f] drones that were evasive maneuvering and hit them. His indications and verbage pretty much said 20nm is a sweet spot with the 120s
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Originally Posted by <Blaze> View Post
If your desired effect on the target is making the pilot defecate his pants laughing then you can definitely achieve it with a launch like that.

Last edited by pr1malr8ge; 01-28-2018 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:26 AM   #19
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The other night I did a "fast mission", I first thing I see are 6 unfriendly planes heading at me in a nice tight group. I can barely hold my own in a one v one so I fired 4 unlocked aim 120s to distract them and got out of there.
I have read that the aim 120 if launched without a lock will turn on it's own radar and start hunting.
After action report says I got two kills, not bad for a shoot an scoot.
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john9001 View Post
The other night I did a "fast mission", I first thing I see are 6 unfriendly planes heading at me in a nice tight group. I can barely hold my own in a one v one so I fired 4 unlocked aim 120s to distract them and got out of there.
I have read that the aim 120 if launched without a lock will turn on it's own radar and start hunting.
After action report says I got two kills, not bad for a shoot an scoot.
That sounds dangerous, and would result in a lot of friendly kills if not used very wisely.
I don't think there is an IFF function in the AIM-120's radar.
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