[FIXED] HUD: A picture is worth a thousand words?

I was told though that the top MFD buttons should be 100% visible, but this is why I am asking, maybe even for pilots their perfect view is different, I don't know.

What's the source of this information? That does complicate things...

You can in the picture I posted.

Here's both parallax cues (HUD upper frame and MFD buttons) at the same time. To accomplish this, I had to move the eyepoint backwards and perhaps a little upwards. Unfortunately it makes the HUD visibility much worse. Panning around it looks like the eyepoint is a few inches in front of the head rest, perhaps the correct location for a head firmly against the headrest.

If you're referencing the last in-game screenshot you posted, then this isn't true.

Missed the "100%" part, so my bad the top buttons are 70% visible in my picture. ;) :D

Here's both parallax cues (HUD upper frame and MFD buttons) at the same time. To accomplish this, I had to move the eyepoint backwards and perhaps a little upwards. Unfortunately it makes the HUD visibility much worse. Panning around it looks like the eyepoint is a few inches in front of the head rest, perhaps the correct location for a head firmly against the headrest.

 

 

Yeah, that's where we want to get, but with the HUD in full view.

Good to hear!!

Uhm that’s because I didn’t ask that, pilots don’t fly with one eye closed. They would have laughed and walked away if I did..

But that's the point that's repeatedly been made - the fact that you can't see all the HUD from a single 2D eye in the middle of the pilot's forehead doesn't mean you couldn't see all the HUD with 2 eyes open in 3D.

Even if it's rendered perfectly as it is in RL, it may not all be visible in 2D in the SIM.

Asking if they can see all the HUD at once in 3D with 2 eyes says nothing about how accurately the SIM reproduces the HUD unless you're also looking at it in 3D.

Could someone with a VR setup actually post a screenshot of the 2 eye's views from the default position to see if if is all visible in 3D

There are posts saying the entire HUD is visible in 3D:

Ah, I'm playing in VR and never even realized this with the new cockpit. But when I close one of my eyes indeed part of the HUD is gone ;)

With both eyes open I can see the whole HUD. View for VR users is perfect now, hope if it will be changed this view will be made an option

 

 

Best,

 

 

 

Marcel

But that's the point that's repeatedly been made - the fact that you can't see all the HUD from a single 2D eye in the middle of the pilot's forehead doesn't mean you couldn't see all the HUD with 2 eyes open in 3D.

 

Even if it's rendered perfectly as it is in RL, it may not all be visible in 2D in the SIM.

Asking if they can see all the HUD at once in 3D with 2 eyes says nothing about how accurately the SIM reproduces the HUD unless you're also looking at it in 3D.

 

Could someone with a VR setup actually post a screenshot of the 2 eye's views from the default position to see if if is all visible in 3D

 

There are posts saying the entire HUD is visible in 3D:

I can tell you it's all visible on the horizontal. I'll have to go back and check vertical visibility with the given indication for setting the height.

The think that's making me wonder though is the following, if that flat plate at the top of the HUD is suposed to be seen as thinly as possible. Then it means that if it's not angled upwards in some what. Then it's exactly in the pilots vertical central line of sight, puting the whole HUD on the bottom half of the pilots vertical FOV when looking straight ahead, this is consistent with photos where you see the pilot in the cockpit. Now if the HUD is bellow the pilot like that (also the reason you don't have this problem in F-16 /F-18) it's also to be expected that once in the air when the pilot had to maintain slight pitch up for level flight that you can see the zero pitch line that you couldn't before. But the GUN boresight, which it the top symbology displayed on the HUD if I'm not mistaken, unless ED got it so wrong at how many MILS it should be displayed, I don't see how that can be in the HUD with your head in the position that was described. This is not a matter with moving the symbology down, like some have asked for. If you move things down, you's be missaligning the HUD wih what it should be representing. So if something is indeed wrong we need to know what part of the geometry is incorrect.

Yeah, that's where we want to get, but with the HUD in full view.

Very relieved to hear this. :thumbup:

There is no need for an attitude, I need to see how it should be adjusted and by how much, when I use TrackIR or VR, basically any head tracking, I can see all the HUD information., with part of the TVV cut off. Without head tracking, I can move the camera forward slightly and maybe adjust the seat down slightly to get the same thing.

 

I only questioned Snoopy on how he was viewing it, I have no information on the simulation he was using in the military if that is what he was referencing. I understand what he is saying, but when some people say its fine, not just me, and others say its wrong, I need to figure out what I need to report.

 

Saying "it's wrong" doesn't help a lot taking into account all the different setups out there.

 

And it's frustrating when I try and get more info only to have comments like "I don't expect ED to do anything about how the HUD in the A-10C is now wrong" when that is exactly what I am trying to figure out how to do if it is indeed wrong, I need to ask questions and get info I can share back.

Thank you for the straight answer, it's good to hear that you are looking into the problem!

...Could someone with a VR setup actually post a screenshot of the 2 eye's views from the default position to see if if is all visible in 3D...

Yes I opened an oculusmirror.exe for right eye in addition to DCS'mirror showing left eye.

Of course with 2 eyes field of view through HUD is wider and allow to see all.

Yes I opened an oculusmirror.exe for right eye in addition to DCS'mirror showing left eye.

 

Of course with 2 eyes field of view through HUD is wider and allow to see all.

 

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Just a small note, this has been referenced before, but even I was forgeting to mention this keypoint. You can actually have the same width FoV through the HUD with a single viewpoint, by moving the viewpoint forward. Which is exactly what I did in the screenshot I posted. And it's exactly how the old cockpit default view used to be positioned, in fact I also tryed to move it back in the old cockpit to a place closer (at least in the fwd aft movement) to where the Pilot head would be (not over the seat edge where it was positioned by default) and you also would lose the ability to see the whole thing left to right.

I play VR but the default head view seems to me too high: I can't see the upper part of the hud while I see a blank space with no data in the bottom part. The hud is ok according to right and left as it fills the horizontal space available. Is anyone else experiencing this? I believe a pilot body would help to set the correct position according to the hud and the back of the seat.

I believe a pilot body would help to set the correct position according to the hud and the back of the seat.

While a pilot body would be a nice addition (I personally never use them), this is not usually the method of setting seat(eye) position. Have a look through the last couple pages in this thread.. there has been input from several real A10 pilots on how to properly position yourself in the virtual cockpit.

I've read it. I'll try to have upper part of the hud thin and upper row of mfcd buttons visible, and I'll check how I can see the hud. But a lot of people is saying the vertical projection of the hud is wrong even in VR (I play VR only). The default position is surely wrong, since the BITs when you start up and place IFFCC in test position are not visible at all.

The default position is surely wrong, since the BITs when you start up and place IFFCC in test position are not visible at all.

That’s actually close to being correct. You have to move your head down to see all that data on startup.

The part in VR that isn’t correct is when you're airborne and the TVV suddenly is out of view and you have to move your head down to see it or move the seat down again.

This is why IMO cockpits should not be made to scale.A larger frame for combiner glass and no headaches.I have the same issue with sim makers and their insistence on German right eye reticules being in their proper place in cockpit.

IMO two sights could be made,one for the true diehards where the head position is moved right and one for people who can live with a cockpit that is not 100% accurate to relieve some of the issues that not having two eye points causes.

IMO=in my opinion :doh:

I have two eyepoints since I play VR, but something is wrong with the hud in the default head position anyway. With the old cockpit the head position has been off for a lot of time, but the hud was ok if you moved the head to a more realistic position. With the new cockpit it is no more so.

I've found a workaround for VR players that I want to suggest:

instead of changing head position, if you center your VR wiew with your chair slightly backward and your torso a bit stretched, when you move forward with your chair and relax your torso the hud position is perfectly set.

I reset my default head position to the old one. (rt CTL + rt SHIFT using numpad / and * to get the position I liked, rt CTRL + numpad 0 to save as default)

Then I modified the .../Mods/aircraft/A-10C/Cockpit/Scripts/HUD/device/HUD_param.lua file to change the value (Line 6) TFOV = 170 to 150. I did this from a copy/paste into my mods folder for OvGME so it doesn't have to be done manually after every update, but do what floats your boat.

My HUD is back to old cockpit visibility and is working just fine. With my old eyes, I also much prefer the old head position for reading the MFD's. As always, you may need to adjust a little differently due to your setup and personal preferences, and YMMV as to effectiveness, you may have to play with TFOV a bit. But it worked very well for me. Tested both with and without TrackIR with no issues.

Edit to add: This for folks having issues in 2D. Don't have the rig/goggles to work with any VR issues, but will like to, some day :)

I reset my default head position to the old one. (rt CTL + rt SHIFT using numpad / and * to get the position I liked, rt CTRL + numpad 0 to save as default)

Then I modified the .../Mods/aircraft/A-10C/Cockpit/Scripts/HUD/device/HUD_param.lua file to change the value (Line 6) TFOV = 170 to 150. I did this from a copy/paste into my mods folder for OvGME so it doesn't have to be done manually after every update, but do what floats your boat.

My HUD is back to old cockpit visibility and is working just fine. With my old eyes, I also much prefer the old head position for reading the MFD's. As always, you may need to adjust a little differently due to your setup and personal preferences, and YMMV as to effectiveness, you may have to play with TFOV a bit. But it worked very well for me. Tested both with and without TrackIR with no issues.

 

Edit to add: This for folks having issues in 2D. Don't have the rig/goggles to work with any VR issues, but will like to, some day :)

I changed those settings and decreasing the TFOV limits what is rendered in the HUD. Not that size of the text or spacing. It's not making the speed and altitude scales come closer together. Any information outside FOV=150` is cut off and will not be seen.

I changed those settings and decreasing the TFOV limits what is rendered in the HUD. Not that size of the text or spacing. It's not making the speed and altitude scales come closer together. Any information outside FOV=150` is cut off and will not be seen.

Yup

I think that the advantages of VR are clear to everyone, the point here is that even if the geometry, the head positioning etc etc were wrong before this patch, you have now "fixed" something that was forgotten for many many years, and it was working better for almost everyone except for VR users.

 

As usual, we are going to fly it, work around limitations and people is going to defend your choices no matter what, but i'm sure that you can clearly see the before and after difference and deep down you know it was better playable before these updates.

The whole point of sims like DCS is to be as accurate as possible and that means tailoring the sim for VR. 2D users annoy me because they always try to block progress.

The whole point of sims like DCS is to be as accurate as possible and that means tailoring the sim for VR. 2D users annoy me because they always try to block progress.

Ok future boy, I'd guess most people are playing using a 2D display so making the default view optimised for VR is a tad premature. Hopefully we'll get a switch in the options menu for 2D/3D displays.

The whole point of sims like DCS is to be as accurate as possible and that means tailoring the sim for VR

I think there is an argument that a UFC, 2 MFDs & a radio box with 2D rendering ARE more accurate than VR...

Or shall we just say its all subjective and stop trying to measure d*cks

Be mindful of the rules gentlemen,

The A_10C is not Specifically tailored intentionally one way or another.

2D Screens + track IR will remain supported, thje new Pit and View Settings just fit more with VR than 2D.

With every update to something new there's always going to be tweaking involved and feedback.

while 2D Users do have more feedback to provide, VR is not without it's elements that need to be tweaked as well.