TrackIR or VR? why?

One's view and experience with VR is a very subjective thing.

Everyone's takes on it will be somewhat different.

The 3D effect is so realistic that I was blown away, and the sacrifice in resolution and frame rates is worth it IMO. I occasionally find myself trying to lean against the canopy rail.

HAHA, I have to laugh because I experienced the same immersion. I was lowering the canopy on my F-18 and had my left hand resting on the arm rest of my chair and I jerked my hand out of the way because I instinctively thought the canopy was going to close on my hand. That's how real it is. I use a Lenovo Explorer WMR unit because I didn't want to spend tons of money and maybe not like it or have my computer not be able to run it. The Lenovo Explorer only cost me $118 on Amazon and it was the best thing I ever bought for DCS. I haven't used my TrackIR since. I can never go back.

just a lower end home use desktop I guess

 

Processor: AMD A10-7800 Radeon R7, 12 Compute Cores 4C +8 3.5GHz

 

Ram is 12GB, 10.9 usable

64 bit operating system, x64-based processor

Windows 10

This system won't run DCS VR at any useable quality. In my opinion 1080ti or better is minimum. 1070 will run, but with great compromises in quality which only add to already poor resolution of current VR headsets.

We are at 1st generation of VR headsets. Not sure if there will be a 2nd gen anytime soon, because of poor adoption across the board, mainstream VR seems to be going the way of low powered standalone headsets/mobile phone extensions with exception of a very few super niche companies trying to develop high res headsets (which don't have any backup in gfx hardware at the moment, maybe next gen after 2080). The immersion is great (wow effect fades away after some hours though, so first contact "reviews" aren't that valid), so is 1:1 tracking but poor resolution/screen door effect and other compromises are there and very visible.

Outside DCS VR is quite fun - there are games which are made for it and they look/play great.

My opinion is (in DCS context) - if you have money get both, TrackIR and VR headset. If money is an issue VR is not something I'd consider.

ps. I have both and use 2D monitor more, but I'd miss VR if I didn't have it.

IMO VR is superior for the non -PVP experience. However, if you're into competitive online play where you'll be dogfighting other human opponents, TrackIR will bust a VR player's butt in most cases, and I'm happy to demonstrate this (I have owned and used several Vives, Rifts, Odyssey, Odyssey+ now, and a Pimax 5k, as well as been playing competitively with the trackIR system since it's inception).

VR doesn't simulate your eyeballs peripheral vision very well, which means in order for your eyes in VR to see airborne targets behind you in that cone of vulnerability, you have to turn around in your chair and look almost directly at them. With TrackIr this isn't the case, you can scale it and remain in your seat almost motionless with regards to your body, and only need slight head movements to look 360 around your aircraft, which makes a massive difference in the ability to rapidly, comfortably, accurately, and consistently put your eyes on threats, particularly in your rear quarters, hold them in visual contact, while simultaneously using your hotas controllers to maneuver with them.

Just my opinion, but most who fly competitively in this game or others against other online players will echo this, and again, I'm happy to demonstrate me in trackIR vs anyone in VR if they disagree.

VR does an exceptional job right now of creating an immersive feeling in flight, and I do much of my DCS time in the Odyssey+, Vive 2.0, and now in the near future my Pimax5k. When I'm going to be playing against other opponents online though, the VR comes off, and tir comes on, as I'm just far, far more effective in fighting with it for the reasons stated above.

If forced to pick just one, it'd likely go to VR as I just couldn't give up the immersion factor now, and I'd just be much slower/crappier at head 2 head.

I play DCS on a 27" 4k monitor at 120Hz and Gsync.

The graphical fidelity of this setup is without competition, VR simply can not replicate the feeling of actually seeing the beautiful details of the DCS world, airplane instruments.

With TrackIR and super high resolution, you get the feeling like you're actually in the sim, and not like you're looking through blurry tunnels with tons of visual aberrations.

Until we get super high res screens and performance to match (like with foveated rendering), VR is just not there to go all in yet (maybe Vive Pro Eye?). It's a fun little experience, but it just can't compare with 4k.

Again it is very subjective to the individual. VR is very much not a one size fits all, same as 4k gaming is not.

For me the best feeling of actually being in the game, comes from being in VR.

Definitely VR for experience, but be prepared to invest heavily in a high end machine. the incredible immersion makes up for any lack in resolution.

If budget is an issue, go for TrackIR.

I hear swivel chairs are nice for checking six in VR. I'm in obutto pit and the chair doesn't swivel, so I tend to have to lean as I turn my head to look behind me. I tend not to fly without friends these days lol.

Definitely VR for experience, but be prepared to invest heavily in a high end machine. the incredible immersion makes up for any lack in resolution.

 

If budget is an issue, go for TrackIR.

I'd say the opposite, if you're on a low budget, go with VR since you won't be able to get high resolution (4k) easily but you should be able to push pixels on the low resolution VR headset.

If you have the large enough budget, go with 4k @120hz, nothing comes close to the realism and immersion of crystal clear picture. It's like you're literally in a cockpit looking out over the Persian Gulf, it's amazing.

I play DCS on a 27" 4k monitor at 120Hz and Gsync.

 

 

The graphical fidelity of this setup is without competition, VR simply can not replicate the feeling of actually seeing the beautiful details of the DCS world, airplane instruments.

 

With TrackIR and super high resolution, you get the feeling like you're actually in the sim, and not like you're looking through blurry tunnels with tons of visual aberrations.

 

Until we get super high res screens and performance to match (like with foveated rendering), VR is just not there to go all in yet (maybe Vive Pro Eye?). It's a fun little experience, but it just can't compare with 4k.

Asus or Acer? I have 2 of the Asus PG27UQ myself right now, and have precisely the same opinion. The $ these monitors cost ($2000 CAD on sale during Black Friday and Boxing day) is worth it. As good as the prior 27 and 34" 1440p Gsync Alienware and Asus/Acer monitors I have are, these new ones with the very high nit/brightness levels along with the HDR, 4k, etc etc features....incredible.

Someday I hope VR headsets have the same resolution and quality, that'll be 5 years IMO, but worth the wait.

I hear swivel chairs are nice for checking six in VR. I'm in obutto pit and the chair doesn't swivel, so I tend to have to lean as I turn my head to look behind me. I tend not to fly without friends these days lol.

If VR ever solves the peripheral vision thing, it'll be a huge step forward on this issue. Also I saw one guy who had a home pit with an actual Hornet (I think, it was some F series fighter anyway) partial cockpit with the handgrips up top on the rails, and when in VR he uses those just like in real life to help turn his body to look in the rear quarters. His demonstration of this looked like it work very effectively. I'll try and find the YT video of this and link it.

Asus or Acer? I have 2 of the Asus PG27UQ myself right now, and have precisely the same opinion. The $ these monitors cost ($2000 CAD on sale during Black Friday and Boxing day) is worth it. As good as the prior 27 and 34" 1440p Gsync Alienware and Asus/Acer monitors I have are, these new ones with the very high nit/brightness levels along with the HDR, 4k, etc etc features....incredible.

 

Someday I hope VR headsets have the same resolution and quality, that'll be 5 years IMO, but worth the wait.

 

 

I have the Asus, got it on sale for $1800, and then got another "employee relative" 35% discount, so a total $1170 including tax. :D

I'm hoping that HTC cranks up the pixel density on the Vive Pro Eye by 50%, so that with foveated rendering we get higher quality picture for about the same performance, and we might literally be just a few months away... I hope.

Asus or Acer? I have 2 of the Asus PG27UQ myself right now, and have precisely the same opinion. The $ these monitors cost ($2000 CAD on sale during Black Friday and Boxing day) is worth it. As good as the prior 27 and 34" 1440p Gsync Alienware and Asus/Acer monitors I have are, these new ones with the very high nit/brightness levels along with the HDR, 4k, etc etc features....incredible.

 

Someday I hope VR headsets have the same resolution and quality, that'll be 5 years IMO, but worth the wait.

 

 

TBH they don't make that great of a difference in my experience. I have a few different "racing/gaming" chairs, DXRacer/etc types which swivel very well, yet try swiveling around while using your HOTAS accurately simultaneously. It can be done, sort of, but it's much, much slower than TrackIR, and much less accurate as well IMO.

 

If VR ever solves the peripheral vision thing, it'll be a huge step forward on this issue. Also I saw one guy who had a home pit with an actual Hornet (I think, it was some F series fighter anyway) partial cockpit with the handgrips up top on the rails, and when in VR he uses those just like in real life to help turn his body to look in the rear quarters. His demonstration of this looked like it work very effectively. I'll try and find the YT video of this and link it.

the FOV of the Pimax5k and 8k headsets might help with the peripheral. Idk. My answer is wingmates, or a trusted GCI. But it definitely feels like you got a pair of thick goggles on when you're trying to look over your shoulder.

I'm hoping that HTC cranks up the pixel density on the Vive Pro Eye by 50%, so that with foveated rendering we get higher quality picture for about the same performance, and we might literally be just a few months away... I hope.

Vive Cosmos "may" have higher res, in fact it absolutely will, it's just guarded intel right now with regards to how much. I think the Vive Pro Eye will have the same res as the Pro, just with the eye tracking. I'm hoping the Cosmos has much higher res too...

I used TrackIR for many years and I loved it. I remember it being a massive game changer for me. I have been using VR for about a year and a half and my TrackIR is gathering dust in a cupboard somewhere.

I got TrackIR out once, in the summer to see what it would be like to go back and it lasted a few minutes and went straight back to its dormant state.

VR is the future in flight simming. How long that takes for it to be the dominant interface I don't know. I know I am glad to be alive after 20 years of simulation to be able to witness it like it is. Even if we are essentially the first generation to do so. It's simply brilliant.

I used TrackIR for many years and I loved it. I remember it being a massive game changer for me. I have been using VR for about a year and a half and my TrackIR is gathering dust in a cupboard somewhere.

 

I got TrackIR out once, in the summer to see what it would be like to go back and it lasted a few minutes and went straight back to its dormant state.

 

VR is the future in flight simming. How long that takes for it to be the dominant interface I don't know. I know I am glad to be alive after 20 years of simulation to be able to witness it like it is. Even if we are essentially the first generation to do so. It's simply brilliant.

Yeah , those of us who have been flight-simming a long time are literally seeing dreams come true .

Yup, I can never go back to TrackIR

Yeah , those of us who have been flight-simming a long time are literally seeing dreams come true .

:thumbup:

Very true!

Little warning about going VR though. It tends to make one spend some serious bucks on their rig...

:cry_2:

I used TrackIR for many years and I loved it. I remember it being a massive game changer for me. I have been using VR for about a year and a half and my TrackIR is gathering dust in a cupboard somewhere.

 

I got TrackIR out once, in the summer to see what it would be like to go back and it lasted a few minutes and went straight back to its dormant state.

 

VR is the future in flight simming. How long that takes for it to be the dominant interface I don't know. I know I am glad to be alive after 20 years of simulation to be able to witness it like it is. Even if we are essentially the first generation to do so. It's simply brilliant.

you got that right! This is what I always dreamed about.

:thumbup:

 

Very true!

 

Little warning about going VR though. It tends to make one spend some serious bucks on their rig...

:cry_2:

:thumbup:

:thumbup:

 

Very true!

 

Little warning about going VR though. It tends to make one spend some serious bucks on their rig...

:cry_2:

I'm actually looking forward to that part :thumbup:

I play DCS on a 27" 4k monitor at 120Hz and Gsync.

 

 

The graphical fidelity of this setup is without competition, VR simply can not replicate the feeling of actually seeing the beautiful details of the DCS world, airplane instruments.

 

 

With TrackIR and super high resolution, you get the feeling like you're actually in the sim, and not like you're looking through blurry tunnels with tons of visual aberrations.

 

 

Until we get super high res screens and performance to match (like with foveated rendering), VR is just not there to go all in yet (maybe Vive Pro Eye?). It's a fun little experience, but it just can't compare with 4k.

While I like the way high-res DCS looks (and it looks nice). I gotta disagree on the immersion, you're in the sim thing, at least compared to VR. With VR you feel like you are there even if it looks not so good due to resolution issues, with a flat screen, you are flying looking at a flat screen even with TIR.

I think the future of all flight sims is gonna be VR. Once the resolution/performance issues are ironed out at least. And we get some better ways to interface with cockpits. But even Gen1 occulus is "ok" for me from a looks standpoint. And realistically once the ppd goes from the low teens to where it is now with gen1 to the 30's (hopefully gen2) that will be good enough (i.e. about double "ish" from where its at now). And from the 30's its another doubling of ppd to get to retinal level res.

My vote , just delivered .

My vote , just delivered .

Sweet! we expect a detailed report there buddy! :thumbup:

Wait until you have your first crash in VR Bahahaha :music_whistling::D

Wait until you have your first crash in VR Bahahaha :music_whistling::D

oh my, remembered that! No worries SVsmokey, you're going to love it! :thumbup: