Landing in the Bf 109K-4

I'm also one of the guys who lands with +2 nose down. Dunno why, it just feels good to me. It is the old "what works for takeoff works for landing" -idea.

I might try trimming nose up as well though.

My way of landing is approach with 250km/h, and slightly above glidepath, that way you can see the runway better IMO.

When crossing the threshold I return the throttle to idle, and make a glider-style landing. So basically I fly the airplane over the runway at 3 feet altitude and wait until it lands itself. Stick is full aft, tail wheel locked, and I apply brakes early. Usually that works pretty well.

If I don't feel well about the approach at any point, I just kick in the throttle at 1.4 and the airplane easily flies off for another approach.

I need about a third of Batumi's runway for that. Often less, depending on how hard I want to brake.

Hmm, am I the only one who finds the Bf-109 much easier to land than the FW-190? I usally manage land the Bf-109 pretty well most of the time, but with the FW-190 it's the other way around. Most landings with it result in a crash despite the fact that I own and fly the Dora for much longer now then the Bf-109 which I was able to land instantly.

Yeah, I guess you are the only one. :D

For me and most people it is the Dora that can be landed easily (I managed to land it three times on my first three tries). I only had problems at takeoff back then.

Finally I got it!

Thanks to all you guys and your suggestions...I've read all your post and taken care about your feedback.

A video about what I did...not perfect, I know...but it's a start :v:

The procedure I followed:

- reduced ATA/RPM to idle..nose up to reduce speed taking care to maintain altitude...

- at 300 kmh applied full flap/ landing gear down/ locked tail wheel

- at 200 kmh stabilized speed and rate of descent: stick to control speed...throttle to control quote/rate of descent

- applied trim to avoid any action on stick to keep vertical speed (this is most important...I usually trim my aircraft in real Flying several times while landing....during downwind leg, base and final leg.....)

- at the beginning of the ranway engine cut out

- started a gentle flare.....not forcing the plane to land but trying to keep it on air.....stick gently pulled back...until the aircraft sits on 3 points

- as soon as wheel on ground applied full wheel break....applied little rudder as soon as the nose starts sliding to left or right...

I'm so happy :)

Hallo guy...can I ask how do you land in 109?

It's almost impossible for me to land correctly...alway get my Kurfurst crashed.

What I do:

- reduce speed to 200 kmh

- full flap

- Landing gear down

- tail wheel locked

- keep constant rate of descent...controlling quote with throttle and speed with stick

- RPM 1200/1300

- at the beginning of ranway...throttle cut out...

- gently rotating the ac to touch on three points

- the Aircraft start reduce speed on ground and...suddenly roll on longitudinal axis touching the runway with left wingtip...nose rotating to the left....airplane crashed!!!

I have discovered that the approach speed is unimportant so long as you are consistent with it. A faster or slower approach speed allows you to accomplish the same goal so don't get hung up on the speed. Just be consistent about it. For instance, at 300 km/h I will drop gear, full flaps, check tailwheel locked, and then adjust my speed in the descent to achieve either a power on or power off approach.

Rate of descent will vary depending upon picture and desired landing spot. Be more concerned with establishing a constant picture out the window, a correct and consistent line-up with the runway centerline, and if you are power on or peer off in your approach.

I do not recommend power changes on final approach and either fix power or remove it prior to the runway. Power changes adjust the torque and P-Factor which change aircraft attitude and orientation with the runway centerline. It is better to perform a power or or power off stabilized approach to the runway. If power on, reduce power for descent glide and when main wheels touch, then reduce power to idle and apply corrective rudder while allowing the tail to gently descend. Don't yank the tail back or you will balloon.

If power off, apply left rudder for correction or orientation and lineup to glide onto the runway allowing mains to touch first and let the tailwheel drop.

Braking is not done until the tailwheel is on the ground with the stick at back stop and slight differential braking used to help orientation more. Don't be in a hurry and don't panic. If you can't control it, let it roll off the runway as no damage occurs to the aircraft when doing so.

The reason the aircraft rolls wing left or right is because you need downward pressure on the tailwheel by pulling the stick back and be careful of application of rudder or braking as the narrow width landing gear (dumb design) is not tolerant of yaw left or right on the ground at speed.

nice Vespa!

now on to the next challenge:

This field seems good...in the quick action menu for the approach mission. It is a darker color grass field, not a farm field. It is about 3km from the truck or whatever it is parked at the airfield. It is to the left of the runway as you approach this grass field heading towards the air field. There is a power plant with 3 stacks that you will come to rest at, on your port side, maybe 400m or so from you, and there are 2 bridges that you will see up ahead of you not far away, towards, and still left of the airfield. Give this field a try guys

i searched for that very field, but couldnt find it...can you show a vid, or a screenshot.would like to try and see whether i notice any difference to other fields like this one:

cheers.

David, whow!!!! Congratulations!!!

It was also an excellent oportunity to notice you have a youtube channel full of other excellent sequences.

( one nota btw: the f86 video tittled landing 30m/s should probably read 30 knot, since 30m/s would be a 60+ knot crosswind, which I don't think was the case, specially because the f-86 has very low rudder authority even in landing config... )

nice short video David, and a very smooth field landing

David, whow!!!! Congratulations!!!

 

It was also an excellent oportunity to notice you have a youtube channel full of other excellent sequences.

 

( one nota btw: the f86 video tittled landing 30m/s should probably read 30 knot, since 30m/s would be a 60+ knot crosswind, which I don't think was the case, specially because the f-86 has very low rudder authority even in landing config... )

nope mate sorry to burst your bubble...if the mission editor lists the windstrengths correctly, then it was indeed 30m/s from 90° towards the runway.but glad you enjoy my vids. :)

iirc, also the atc in that little vid tells about the wind to be 30m/s.

EDIT: i just checked,...atc tells the wind is 31m/s.

30 m/s ????? WHOW!!!!! That's a 60 knot x-wind !!!!

Oh my...:eek:

Nice vid and Landing David....I'd like to get that 109 handle...sooner or later...

mh yeah possible....you mean this one?

 

[YOUTUBE]XCfgADU8kdw[/YOUTU BE]

Yes, it's the one. The YT search didn't return it as a result of my search. +1 on flying skills, -1 on video title :sly:

I've completed just under 400 landings in the K4 so far and if it had the suspension adjusted a little it could be much easier to land. Hopefully when it's updated it will have been tweaked a bit, but until then it's going to seem a bit over sensitive until you really get used to it.

I suspect it wasn't quite so much so in reality but i haven't the credentials to say so one way or another. What i do know is that the minor adjustments I made to the FMOptions.lua that contain the undercarriage spring and dampener parameters really made a difference.

Interesting Woelfel, could you share those changes you made please?

Interesting Woelfel, could you share those changes you made please?

Sure. I'm working in the dark to a degree and it's a work in progress, no doubt, but here is a link to the latest revision of the modded file. I hope it works for you.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d4rj27860817trm/AAAQVSpTd-h3OEbQd2ber936a?dl=0

Woelfel, Brilliant!!!!

I had considered tweaking it myself, but didn't have the guts :-)

I'll try your mod and report back :thumbup:

Yes thanks Woelfel, I will try this out

Everything we already know very well, but nicely explainded :-)

I think that the suspension of the aircraft needs to be less stiff. In the manual under emergency, there is a guide to help select a proper field, to set down on.

 

Off-topic, but what soundmod you are using?

Yes it is a very good sounding mod to me as-well, I was sent a PM asking if I would like to try a sound mod that he was working on. I had to first agree that I would not share it or mention his name. Of course I had to agree to that so that I could check it out.

 

The good news is that he will be making it available for all of us to enjoy, the bad news is that I gave him my word, and so I have to stick to that... maybe though he might send you an invitation and ask for feedback from you, sorry guys!

No problem, i'm enjoying Diveplane's very good sounds. Was just curious as i was not aware of another DB sound mod available yet but that explains it well :)

Thanks a lot for sharing your files and inf Woelfel..I'll give it a try

You're all very welcome. As I said, it still needs a lot of work and there are a few parameters whose meaning I could only guess at - although I didn't touch anything that could possibly have any effect whatsoever on anything other than the suspension. Just keep a copy of your original FMOptions.lua file. Of course, if you lose it, you can always replace it with the 'repair' function.

Good luck. I hope it makes things a little easier.

Thanks Woelfel, this is a very useful find.

+ Rep for this one!

I have used JSGME to install it. Once you have found all the relevant parameters, maybe you could share the information so we can tweak it ourselves too?

Sure. I'm working in the dark to a degree and it's a work in progress, no doubt, but here is a link to the latest revision of the modded file. I hope it works for you.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d4rj27860817trm/AAAQVSpTd-h3OEbQd2ber936a?dl=0

Woelfel,

again, thank you for the mod! I gave it a try, but honestly I didn't find any difference ( ? ). But, the same happens in this version of the K4 with the trim tabs - any changes do not appear to have effect. My guess is that some of the parameters set in that file aren't being used yet ( ? ) At least this file only appeared with the last patch. I had used it in the Dora a couple of months ago to adjust the aileron trim tab and searched for it when I first installed the K4.