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What in the #$!* am I doing wrong!?


ironroad

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I'm trying to get back into flying the F-5 Tiger II after being away from it for so long.

 

My reason being is I want to something to go up against all the future (sometime in the winter of 2019-2020) would be F-14/Turkey drivers. A mean and trolling adversary full of piss-n-vinegar on the servers.

 

I thought to myself, oh the look on their faces when in about a year they finally get their precious F-14 and I come through blasting ass in my Mig-28 or A-4 Super Echo Mongoose. I'll show them for being impatient, I'll shoot every last flapping turkey like my name is Myles Standish and my village is starving on Thanksgiving.

 

Then this happened....not once but twice....FML

 

 

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Looks like no takeoff trim set on your first attempt.

 

Way too much AoA on climbout on your second attempt. 200-250kts at full burner with the nose at, what, 45° or higher?

 

Oscillations look pilot induced to me. Don't move the stick fore and aft so much.

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For starters, if you want to fly around Tonopah at least choose the air force base there, because that runway in Tonopah Airport is woefully unfit for fast jet operations.

 

 

The main problems in your take-off run are that you're too impatient. Whether you give it take-off trim or not (you most definitely should), in an F-5E with full fuel and an external tank you're looking at a take-off speed of around 155-160 knots, with the trim indicator around 7 degrees. Your attempts were too wobbly because you were pulling all the way back without having enough speed to do much, which then led to unsticking violently when the wings did their thing.

 

 

Next time, try to set the trim, pick a nice and long runway, check the dampers (two little switches all the way to the left, behind the radar and countermeasure controls), extend the nose gear strut, step on the brakes until engine RPM reaches around 100%, then let the plane run until 155kts. Only then you start pulling gently on the stick, and you'll be flying in no time!

 

 

About the landing, there isn't much to say, once you noticed things weren't right you should have added power and re-entered the pattern. Again, at a nicer airfield it's easier.

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When you pull to lift off, keep the stick back and the burners lit until you have positive climb rate for a few seconds, then very gently nose over to level, and then back off the throttle after you have some airapeed. If you've ever flown a heavily loaded su25 in this game, it's fairly similar in behavior.

 

Before takeoff, make sure the dampeners are switched on. Dont use brakes to steer. At the point that NWS is too sensitive, you should have enough rudder authority.

 

Of course, I'm ham handed and just hike the nose gear and pull the stick all the way back and hold until I'm off the ground, relaxing once I have positive rate to reduce AOA and get some speed. I became overly sensitive to popping the wheels back when the overspeed limits were too low.


Edited by Dino Might
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You can imagine an airplane which can set the liftoff attitude by 75 knots but cannot liftoff until 150 knots. I he wanted to he could drive around with the nose up in the sky at 100 knots Instead, pilot should keep minimum drag attitude until nearly liftoff speed. Pulling back on the stick all the way early just adds drag which makes takeoff take more time and distance.

 

What is worse is that if airplane is set at liftoff attitude so early then as liftoff speed is reached the lift be increasing only by function of speed. Much time is spent "barely flying" which causes problems.

 

Instead it is better to transition from not flying to flying (liftoff) by increasing speed and pitch at the same time. If liftoff happens at 150 knots and 9° pitch then it is best to start 140 knots, 0° pitch. Over the next ~3 seconds the speed is increasing +10 knots and pitch +3°/s. The lift is going from near zero to >liftoff quickly. Ideally liftoff occurs while pitch is still increasing so lift excess is larger and sooner than constant pitch takeoff.

 

In general it looks like you are flying with a keyboard or Xbox controller, always huge back or forward stick motions. Stall AOA is exceeded. AOA gauge should be watched when pulling stick until a habit is learned by feel what is 5, 7, 10, 12, etc AOA.

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-snip-

This.

 

You seem to "overwant" the aircraft. Ease up on the stick, watch your AOA and airspeed.

Jamming the stick full back will only give you what it's giving: no speed, ever decreasing altitude and no maneuverability.

So, relax and let the lift do it's thing :)

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For starters, if you want to fly around Tonopah at least choose the air force base there, because that runway in Tonopah Airport is woefully unfit for fast jet operations.

 

 

Refuse to touch Tonopah Air Base or Groom Lake with a 10 foot pole. I'm not having men show up to my house in black suvs and suits. *My uncle ran into a similar problem many years ago one cold December morn. It took 12 U.S. Marshals and three state police officers to get him under control.

 

 

The main problems in your take-off run are that you're too impatient. Whether you give it take-off trim or not (you most definitely should), in an F-5E with full fuel and an external tank you're looking at a take-off speed of around 155-160 knots, with the trim indicator around 7 degrees. Your attempts were too wobbly because you were pulling all the way back without having enough speed to do much, which then led to unsticking violently when the wings did their thing.

 

 

I thought about taking off too early, I know it takes the F-5 a while to spool up in comparison to the mighty Eagle. Also use to doing a vertical climb or high-angle chandelle in the magnificent F-15...also known as The Eagle.

 

 

Next time, try to set the trim, pick a nice and long runway, check the dampers (two little switches all the way to the left, behind the radar and countermeasure controls), extend the nose gear strut, step on the brakes until engine RPM reaches around 100%, then let the plane run until 155kts. Only then you start pulling gently on the stick, and you'll be flying in no time!

Normally the dampers are already selected when doing hot starts in the F-5E, but it has been a while since I flown it.

 

 

About the landing, there isn't much to say, once you noticed things weren't right you should have added power and re-entered the pattern. Again, at a nicer airfield it's easier.

 

 

I should have punched the center line, but I was fighting what seemed like stuck flight controls and a oxygen system malfunction on the way back. Wasn't going to try to make it to Nellis or Indian Springs (Creech) and Fallon (home base) isn't on the map. Also did not want to be ritualistically flogged, imprisoned, and then executed, so no Groom Lake or Tonopah.

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You can imagine an airplane which can set the liftoff attitude by 75 knots but cannot liftoff until 150 knots. I he wanted to he could drive around with the nose up in the sky at 100 knots Instead, pilot should keep minimum drag attitude until nearly liftoff speed. Pulling back on the stick all the way early just adds drag which makes takeoff take more time and distance.

 

What is worse is that if airplane is set at liftoff attitude so early then as liftoff speed is reached the lift be increasing only by function of speed. Much time is spent "barely flying" which causes problems.

 

Instead it is better to transition from not flying to flying (liftoff) by increasing speed and pitch at the same time. If liftoff happens at 150 knots and 9° pitch then it is best to start 140 knots, 0° pitch. Over the next ~3 seconds the speed is increasing +10 knots and pitch +3°/s. The lift is going from near zero to >liftoff quickly. Ideally liftoff occurs while pitch is still increasing so lift excess is larger and sooner than constant pitch takeoff.

 

In general it looks like you are flying with a keyboard or Xbox controller, always huge back or forward stick motions. Stall AOA is exceeded. AOA gauge should be watched when pulling stick until a habit is learned by feel what is 5, 7, 10, 12, etc AOA.

 

 

Thought about that, and did not fully calculate the weight of the full center-line tank.

 

 

 

But I'm flying with this...and have my sensitivity set to where it functions like a hair trigger.

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In dogfights I usually have to be careful not to over-stress (usually modeled as severe buffeting and stalling in game). But on the positive side all I have to do is lightly roll my wrist and it gives me a rapid and almost god-like response. I normally dampen it down and open up the dead-zones when I'm flying aircraft with straight mechanical or non-electronically boosted flight controls.

 

 

Had this setup for years, but been debating if I should switcher over to Thrustmaster after my trigger broke a few months ago. Hate to give up my controller's sensitive twitch response, it feels like I'm just thinking the aircraft onto the target at times.


Edited by ironroad
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T... it feels like I'm just thinking the aircraft onto the target at times.

 

Well, that's kind of the idea of force sensitive controls (one of the ideas anyway).

The danger/downside (if you can call it that...) is that you have to be careful as it's really easy to go from 0-to-100% control input.

This is fundamentally different from a deflection based input (obviously).

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