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P38L


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Maybe because it's a twin engine and it's more complex. I think the reason the first twin engine warbird ED is creating is Mosquito is because it's the same engine (or almost the same) as we have in the spitfire.

 

Would buy the P38 as first day when released. But I imagine it's something that will come later.

This is my favorite Us warbird :D

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You and I have something in common Wulf! :smilewink:

 

I too would very much like to see the P-38 in game, however, the systems on the actual aircraft were very complex and I'm with Wulf in that it probably is not the best candidate to test out the physics of twin engine props in DCS.

 

When venturing into new territory with any scientific endeavour it is best to remove as many variables as possible; with the Mossie the engine models are a known quantity and have been for some time, so any potential issues with the flight dynamics would unlikely be down to a faulty parameter within the engine code - this will help them nail down the cause of any bugs faster and thus resolve them more quickly.

 

I suspect once the Mossie is out the P-38 would be a likely candidate for the next WW2 prop module as it fits the planeset and/or maps we have quite nicely.

 

Though they may select the P-40 or even P-39 first to get a single engine Allison engine aircraft in game first, getting a good solid model of that powerplant working before pushing on to the complexity of the P-38 and it's turbo and intercooler systems.

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With Bong and the P38L being one of the most decorated aircraft of WWII, why hasn't this aircraft been modeled yet?

 

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Maybe it is but average person asked what planes were flying during WW2 will be spitfire or p-51.

Almost every person which i talked had no idea what p-38 was.

The same with Hurricane and Spitfire. Spitfire is taged as plane which won Battle for Britain but real work horse was Hurricane


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P38 was one the most used plane in Europe as it was, with the P47, the only plane that could escort bomber to germany before P51 was avaible.

 

I think this plane will come as soon as possible as it is one of the most well known plane and as it was used on every front (except in Russia).

 

US and Britih pilots use it during war.

Even French pilots fly some of them (like Saint-Exupéry).

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P38 was one the most used plane in Europe as it was, with the P47, the only plane that could escort bomber to germany before P51 was avaible.

 

Yes, but the P-51 kinda pushed it aside in the ETO fairly fast, it just didn't really work too well in Europe for a variety of reasons. Would seem to fit more naturally in a Pacific theatre aircraft group, if they do one. This is the wishlist for the European theatre though...

 

The RAF ordered some, tried a few & sent them back because they didn't like them.

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Yes, but the P-51 kinda pushed it aside in the ETO fairly fast, it just didn't really work too well in Europe for a variety of reasons. Would seem to fit more naturally in a Pacific theatre aircraft group, if they do one. This is the wishlist for the European theatre though...

 

The RAF ordered some, tried a few & sent them back because they didn't like them.

 

I didn't agree with you. It's an important plane in Europe too.

It was used as a fighter, ground attack and recon plane in Europe from 1942 to 1945.

There was less P38 than P51 in Europe. But there was still lot of them in use.

 

This is a quite important plane for this front.

 

Ps: Raf didn't like the P51 at first too.

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I didn't agree with you. It's an important plane in Europe too.

It was used as a fighter, ground attack and recon plane in Europe from 1942 to 1945.

There was less P38 than P51 in Europe. But there was still lot of them in use.

 

This is a quite important plane for this front.

 

Ps: Raf didn't like the P51 at first too.

 

Only one thing is preventing P-38 from being the best fighter/bomber.

Max Mach 0.65 if i remember correctly.

Core of the plane is engine P-38 has 2 engines this makes this plane significant increase in hours required for build. It is logical that they were not as common as single engine fighters

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Only one thing is preventing P-38 from being the best fighter/bomber.

Max Mach 0.65 if i remember correctly.

Core of the plane is engine P-38 has 2 engines this makes this plane significant increase in hours required for build. It is logical that they were not as common as single engine fighters

 

I don't remember max speed of it. But it was told that the P38 was the fastest twin engine fighter of the war (not talking about jet and Do 335). I remember it can get over 600 km/h at some altitude because of it's design. But his design had a major problem. Air hitting the wing when the plane is at high speed didn't get to the tail. Lot of early Lightning crash because it was impossible to pull up when it was in high speed dive. That why they add the air brakes.

 

That a plane that can do a lot but that is really dangerous ! I like it ! :)

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I don't remember max speed of it. But it was told that the P38 was the fastest twin engine fighter of the war (not talking about jet and Do 335). I remember it can get over 600 km/h at some altitude because of it's design. But his design had a major problem. Air hitting the wing when the plane is at high speed didn't get to the tail. Lot of early Lightning crash because it was impossible to pull up when it was in high speed dive. That why they add the air brakes.

 

That a plane that can do a lot but that is really dangerous ! I like it ! :)

 

That is what im talking about, when you pass crit mach number in p-38 with almost no buffeting nose went down like crazy. It is due to that wings and tail horizontal stab is at same plain. When crit mach number is passed turbulent air is hitting horizontal stab creating this nose down craziness.

Problem was real because when flying at 20-30k alt when pilot put p-38 power on, in 10-15 degrees dive and plane was in this situation in matter of couple hundreds of feet.


Edited by grafspee

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[quote=

Though they may select the P-40 or even P-39 first to get a single engine Allison engine aircraft in game first, getting a good solid model of that powerplant working before pushing on to the complexity of the P-38 and it's turbo and intercooler systems.

 

I think both of these would be poor engines to follow examples of, neither of the Allisons in these planes were turbocharged.....

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I'd love to see the P38 in DCS. We can only wait...

 

Just a few notes:

- Main problem with Lightings in the ETO was lack of training from the crews, the compresibility problems (all you need to avoid the lightinings was to dive and they won't follow you because of their fear to a dive lockdown) and the freezing at very high altitudes.

- In the PTO the lightning was the fighter of choice for almost the whole duration of the war. There they had a lot more of training in the plane, freezing was not a problem (in fact it was the opposite, pilots flew in shorts and hawaian shirts) and japanese fighters were not built for speed, so compresibility was not a problem.

- Most ETO US veterans had been flying in spitfires and RAF mustangs for a lot of time, so switching to the US mustang was easy, while the P38 needed a lot of training in all the complex systems. Also, mustang was much easier and cheaper to build.

- P38L with hydraulic aileron boosters, dive brakes and improved cooling systems had best acceleration, high altitude performance and firepower of all allied fighters in the late stages of the war, but ETO pilots and brass just wanted a simple and reliable fighter (mustang) instead. It also had the best range, best ordenance capabilities and the dual engine was always a built in insurance.

- RAF lightnings were scrapped because they were given without turbochargers (they were classified at that time) and with all the engines turning the same side instead of counter rotating. Of course they were shit.

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  • 4 months later...
Fairly sure we know exactly what planes we're getting, wasn't it listed on the kickstarter?

 

P-38 might be a big deal for the Pacific, but for Normandy '44, not really.

 

 

I do believe (correct me if I'm wrong) the P-38 was chosen for fleet air defense on D-Day because it didn't look anything like a German aircraft. Twin booms, invasion stripes...

 

 

...of course none of that mattered to the naval gunners, who operated on the theory that they shoot everything down and sort the wreckage later, but at least someone tried.

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I don't remember max speed of it. But it was told that the P38 was the fastest twin engine fighter of the war (not talking about jet and Do 335). I remember it can get over 600 km/h at some altitude because of it's design. But his design had a major problem. Air hitting the wing when the plane is at high speed didn't get to the tail. Lot of early Lightning crash because it was impossible to pull up when it was in high speed dive. That why they add the air brakes.

 

That a plane that can do a lot but that is really dangerous ! I like it ! :)

 

Another big problem was the early versions did not have hydraulic flight controls and at speed the roll rate suffered dramatically. A friend of mine has a L-P38 type rating and mentioned the dramatic difference with and without the hydraulics. Part of the type ride was flying with the hydraulics off, and you had to completely take your hands off the controls prior to turning them back on. Even the lightest stick pressure would cause it to snap roll when hydraulics were turned back on.

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P-38 could pull out of dive. Problem was that when Airplane got to lower altitude pull out was very sudden and aggressive. Pls don't think that it worked like in other "sims" that you cant do anything until hit the ground.

Problem was that inexperience pilots made mistakes which lead to make p-38 dive even steeper.

Than at lower alt, plane pull out violently, ending up in pieces.

Experienced pilots could pull out from it and see another day.

P-38 main problem was that compresibility was showing so early that, fighting at high alt was very difficulty.


Edited by grafspee

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Another big problem was the early versions did not have hydraulic flight controls and at speed the roll rate suffered dramatically. A friend of mine has a L-P38 type rating and mentioned the dramatic difference with and without the hydraulics. Part of the type ride was flying with the hydraulics off, and you had to completely take your hands off the controls prior to turning them back on. Even the lightest stick pressure would cause it to snap roll when hydraulics were turned back on.

 

What i know P-38 had only aileron boosted controls, no elevator or rudder.


Edited by grafspee

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This is a great thread for jogging some old memories. I read Tony Levier's "Pilot" a million years ago in a former life and possibly some stuff by or about Kelly Johnson.

 

From what I remember the problem with the P-38 was that in a dive and progressing into the trans sonic regime that the standing Mach waves would form on the horizontal stabilizer and basically make the elevator useless no matter how hard the yoke was pulled. I don't recall but probably the same thing happened to the control surfaces on the wings. Wasn't there something about pulling really hard could just keep the nose from pitching down?

 

If the pilot was good, didn't panic, etc. then he could ride it out and pull out as the air got thicker, Mach number went down due to air density and the waves would dissipate.

 

Was the J or G model the first one to get dive brakes?

 

Regarding the engines, from what I remember there was a long time getting the engines sorted and reliable (complexity!) and like someone else posted the lack of support techs with good knowledge of the engine made it have a bad reputation at the start. Wasn't there some kind of program to get Pacific theatre techs shipped to Europe to do training on the engine? In the meantime the Merlin was getting turned into a legend anecdotally.

 

I'd love to see a P-38 in DCS. I love the idea of a P-40 first to get the engine sorted in a single engine type first. Love both of these planes. If anyone at DCS is reading this - can we get a A/B model of the P-40 with the "pretty" nose for a Flying Tigers scenario and a later model that fits better with the rest of the planes in sim currently? :D

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I'm halfway through a P-38 campaign in that other sim, and it's a really interesting, unique, beast and fun to fly. Dying to start clicking all the switches in DCS one day...

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With Bong and the P38L being one of the most decorated aircraft of WWII, why hasn't this aircraft been modeled yet?

 

No need for medium bombers in DCS WWII.

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P38 was one the most used plane in Europe as it was, with the P47, the only plane that could escort bomber to germany before P51 was avaible.

 

I think this plane will come as soon as possible as it is one of the most well known plane and as it was used on every front (except in Russia).

 

US and Britih pilots use it during war.

Even French pilots fly some of them (like Saint-Exupéry).

Some interesting facts about P-47 vs P-51 escort ranges in the ETO.

 

 

What you read isn't always what really happened!

 

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P-38 is the last main figther which is not yet planned for the 44 European theater. We talk a lot about the priority between 262 vs the Hellcat , but the P-38 would perfectly fit Channel, normandy and the pacific map.

I really think P-38 should be a priority for ED.

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