Goodbye Asus

I've bought Asus mobos and cards for as long as I can remember, but having just learnt about their budget VRMs on premium boards, well, no one likes to be ripped off and Asus has just lost me as a loyal customer. I'm both shocked and disappointed.

I looks like I'll be going for a Gigabyte Z390 board this time round. I don't expect I'll buy another Asus card either because they've left a bad taste in my mouth merely from their audacity.

Strong words.

Do you have a link backing up that statement?

the vrms can’t be that bad... asus boards are one of the most popular boards for overclocking

I've bought Asus mobos and cards for as long as I can remember, but having just learnt about their budget VRMs on premium boards, well, no one likes to be ripped off and Asus has just lost me as a loyal customer. I'm both shocked and disappointed.

 

I looks like I'll be going for a Gigabyte Z390 board this time round. I don't expect I'll buy another Asus card either because they've left a bad taste in my mouth merely from their audacity.

Well, that is not the technical truth. Asus has clearly stated why they went this approch on 9th gen CPU.

There is a good article on HardOCP that explains why they did it this way.

True, at first it sounds like a rip-off but after reading the technical reasons why, i think it makes sense.

last page from that review, here's the link: https://www.hardocp.com/article/2019/01/17/asus_rog_maximus_xi_formula_z390_motherboard_review/7

'Hardware Unboxed' had to buy an Asus ROG Maximus Hero XL board because Asus wouldn't send them one to review. That in my mind says it all. Quote:"Twin 8 Phase is marketed BS". I hear the VRM temps get high too.

I'm not sure why people buy into all this negative hype from amateur electrical engineers. I've yet to see one person explain to me why the components that ASUS have chosen as a cost saving measure will actually make their CPU run slower. I'm not seeing it. You have to test it yourself. None of those guys have actually done OC comparisons with the same chip from board to board to actually show lower clock speeds or benchmarks.

I'm don't even understand this stuff well enough to explain it, I just know if you keep VRM cool it goes faster and the OC is more stable. The benchmarks show it. How many phases it is, who makes the components, what grade they are? I have no idea how that stuff works on a detailed technical level other than it regulates the voltage going to the CPU which is implied in the term. I just put the voltage on adaptive in the bios and it works like a charm.

I'm not sure why people buy into all this negative hype from amateur electrical engineers. I've yet to see one person explain to me why the components that ASUS have chosen as a cost saving measure will actually make their CPU run slower. I'm not seeing it. You have to test it yourself. None of those guys have actually done OC comparisons with the same chip from board to board to actually show lower clock speeds or benchmarks.

 

I'm don't even understand this stuff well enough to explain it, I just know if you keep VRM cool it goes faster and the OC is more stable. The benchmarks show it. How many phases it is, who makes the components, what grade they are? I have no idea how that stuff works on a detailed technical level other than it regulates the voltage going to the CPU which is implied in the term. I just put the voltage on adaptive in the bios and it works like a charm.

It won't and the higher VRM temps actually don't really mean much of anything since VRM can handle very high temps with no negative effect. I think what DID upset a lot of people was the seemingly deceptive marketing by ASUS... I for one also changed to a different brand because I also felt the marketing was deceptive and the board was overpriced for what you got.

See buildzoid video here:

That's the amateur electrical engineer I was referring to. I've already seen it. That's how I know they are cost saving measures. I'm not an electrical engineer but I take classes with them from time to time at a major research university. That guy is not as knowledgeable as he thinks he is and is very self taught.

All this stuff is overpriced. I payed at least several hundred dollars for the ASUS brand name. You are also paying for customer service the ability to RMA, resale value, etc. The cost of the components is just a small part of the deal.

It's your money, do what you want, I just don't understand why people actually buy into all this marketing hype for motherboards and then regurgitate it. That's one of the few components where there is real competition between manufacturers. You need to be more skeptical. He might have some kind of conflict of interest or endorsement deal. I watch gamer's nexus all the time. A deep dive from buildzoid still doesn't demonstrate why it makes the least bit of difference in real world usage. A test by Steve would. With manufacturers deviating from the specs for baseclocks on the Z390 chipset, etc you have to do real world tests with lots of motherboards and chips to see any actual difference.

Again, do people actually understand all the gimmicky marketing about phases? If you buy a gaming/OC motherboard from Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, Asrock, EVGA... you'll be fine. Buy one you think looks cool, is compatible on partspicker or configurators for the chipset, etc. and fits the colors you had in mind for your build and case. You have to assume all those manufacturers have paid shills that lurk on overclock forums.

That's the amateur electrical engineer I was referring to. I've already seen it. That's how I know they are cost saving measures. I'm not an electrical engineer but I take classes with them from time to time at a major research university. That guy is not as knowledgeable as he thinks he is and is very self taught.

Well, that does not sound good, either.

I'd describe myself as an Asus fanboy", but as soon as any company starts using inferior designs to cut costs and boost profits I quickly fall out of love with them. It's corporate greed pure and simple. I'm by no means an expert on motherboards, I just see through the BS and it's as clear as day the Asus board is inferior to the competitors whilst Asus have had the audacity to charge more for their inferior product. Asus clearly believed that their name would have sold their customers this 4 phase VRM BS.

Asus will lose a lot of business from this stunt. It's insulting people's intelligence. Whilst many hardcore Asus fans will out aside this VRM issue, the fact stands that the Asus board is harder to overclock and the board generates more heat. Where Asus have attempted to make more money I'm sure they're now all too aware this stunt has cost them dearly. Their reputation would have taken a massive hit over this.

I've been an Asus fan for years. I've love the aesthetics of their designs and their ability to stay a cut above the competition, so I'm astounded why they'd do something like this. We PC enthusiasts are anal about technology and specs so WTF was Asus thinking? Maybe Asus are trying to recoop the cost of being sued by the American Federal Trade Commission.

Well, that does not sound good, either.

If you want to take the word of a young guy named Buildzoid who spends a lot of time tearing down components be my guest. Having wealthy parents and time to make videos an expert does not make. If you skim over his videos he's a self taught electronics tech at best. If he actually knew what he was talking about he would be working for Asus or one of their competitors designing these things not trying to get views from gamers. And then the experts regurgitate and cite him until it becomes fact. Marketing for the gullible. I could be full of excrement too but I don't pretend to understand things that I actually don't. What's his physics and math background? I don't get paid by these companies. I own stock in them. I might get a Youtube channel going someday but I won't make any money from it.

All these companies know that people come to the forums or watch Youtube channels for word of mouth and try and create positive word of mouth for their products and negative word of mouth for competitors products. Social media is a big part of EVGA marketing. The marketing people must laugh when gamers do their work for them.

If you want to take the word of a young guy named Buildzoid who spends a lot of time tearing down components be my guest. Having wealthy parents and time to make videos an expert does not make. If you skim over his videos he's a self taught electronics tech at best. If he actually knew what he was talking about he would be working for Asus or one of their competitors designing these things not trying to get views from gamers. And then the experts regurgitate and cite him until it becomes fact. Marketing for the gullible. I could be full of excrement too but I don't pretend to understand things that I actually don't. What's his physics and math background? I don't get paid by these companies. I own stock in them. I might get a Youtube channel going someday but I won't make any money from it.

 

All these companies know that people come to the forums or watch Youtube channels for word of mouth and try and create positive word of mouth for their products and negative word of mouth for competitors products. Social media is a big part of EVGA marketing. The marketing people must laugh when gamers do their work for them.

Well, I mean... it's just about as good as taking the word of a guy named "sn8ke" on a video game forum. :lol:

It's not really, one guy is talking critical thinking and media awareness, the other is a putz on youtube attempting to sell you something. I watched the video and in the first 2 minutes I heard probably, i think, and maybe along with a constant obnoxious clicking from his mouse (because I guess people like that?) He's making an authoritative video but isn't even checking his facts before recording or posting, and he isn't actually proving chips he says are there are actually those chips. He actually immediately draws over them. He also never PROVES it's actually a functional problem, he just scribbles crap all over the screen.

AND here's the big one......The video was brought to you by the "NZXT" whatever ugly case.

Guess what else NZXT makes? If you guessed Motherboards, congrats, you just learned how this dude bridges the gap between 500K subscriber add rev and his mortgage payment.

Strong words.

Do you have a link backing up that statement?

What?! This is an internet forum, I believe it's against the rules to back your statements with facts. You are expected at all times to make only unsubstantiated claims, the more dramatic the better.

In his defense, I think Asus is overpriced bs that is losing ground to competitors.

Well, I mean... it's just about as good as taking the word of a guy named "sn8ke" on a video game forum. :lol:

Feel free to search my benchmark scores on 3dmark. They speak for themselves. The guys that beat me use liquid nitrogen or chillers. I live in a cold climate though. I might have put my rig outside for a few of those benchmarks but I'll never admit it under oath. ;)

There's this guy named Kingpin. I think his real name is Vinnie "something Italian". He works with a Russian electrical engineer that goes by the name of Tin for EVGA. If you don't know who they are you should look them up. They are better at this than anybody I know of. They actually know what they are talking about. Der8auer is well regarded as well but works for Asus. Those are the people I listen to and learned from for OC. I started building PC's in the 1980's when I was a kid and my mom worked for IBM. I played the first version of Microsoft Flight Simulator on the original IBM PC. I'm pretty new to the whole OC thing and liquid cooling though. When people first started taking soldering irons to their motherboards, changing crystals, rigging up aquarium pumps, and whatever people could improvise from Home Depot., I though all that stuff was crazy. Overclocking is much more accessible now. There are lots of safety features built into these boards these days. Just need to be careful of heat or voltage too far outside the rated specs for that chip. Those professional overclockers go through high end chips like candy. Liquid cooling is fun, but I recommend hybrid and AIO for most people. Feel free to shoot me any messages if you guys have questions about building your rig. I'll make time for fellow DCS fans.

Feel free to search my benchmark scores on 3dmark. They speak for themselves. The guys that beat me use liquid nitrogen or chillers. I live in a cold climate though. I might have put my rig outside for a few of those benchmarks but I'll never admit it under oath. ;)

I mean.. seems those VRMS are holding up then.

This is called FREEDOM of CHOICE.

You can choose whom you listen to and make up your own opinion.

No one forces anybody to watch any of those vids.

If you dont like them, dont watch them.

No need to discredit that guy.

Let's just look at the facts and not get personal. Did Asus save money with their marketed "twin 8 VRM"? Yes. Is Asus charging more money for their inferior Z390 board? Yes. Do the phase 4 VRM run hotter than phase 8 VRMs? Yes. Is overclocking with a phase 4 VRM board arguably harder to do than a board with an 8 phase VRM? Yes.

Unless this Asus scandal turns out that having 'less is more' Asus has been trying to scam their customers. It doesn't get much more simpler than that. There's no sugar coating it just because up to now Asus' products have been sublime. Asus' reputation would have been taken a massive hit over this. Not because I said, but because people who buy their premiere products tend to use their brain to form their own opinions. Of course, Asus will now attempt to whoa back the customers they've lost to Gigabyte by releasing a board with stellar VRM set to blow the competition away, but we'll still be left asking ourselves " why" did Asus make such a stupid decision to market their "twin" BS!

wow.

you need some sugar.

Let's just look at the facts and not get personal. Did Asus save money with their marketed "twin 8 VRM"? Yes. Is Asus charging more money for their inferior Z390 board? Yes. Do the phase 4 VRM run hotter than phase 8 VRMs? Yes. Is overclocking with a phase 4 VRM board arguably harder to do than a board with an 8 phase VRM? Yes.

 

Unless this Asus scandal turns out that having 'less is more' Asus has been trying to scam their customers. It doesn't get much more simpler than that. There's no sugar coating it just because up to now Asus' products have been sublime. Asus' reputation would have been taken a massive hit over this. Not because I said, but because people who buy their premiere products tend to use their brain to form their own opinions. Of course, Asus will now attempt to whoa back the customers they've lost to Gigabyte by releasing a board with stellar VRM set to blow the competition away, but we'll still be left asking ourselves " why" did Asus make such a stupid decision to market their "twin" BS!

Have you read the technical info from Asus to HardOCP's Kyle WHY they did it this way ?

I guess not.

Does it overclock harder ? I dont think so, depends on your skills and knowledge too, not only THE board and THE VRM's, there is more to it, it aint that easy to say "They are BAD". That's too easy and unfair.

Make your own test and publish it, like others do that say with confidence its NOT the lesser solution, just different.

I am in no way defending Asus, I have my own story with them, but it's not that easy and just bashing doesnt help us here.

This is called FREEDOM of CHOICE.

 

You can choose whom you listen to and make up your own opinion.

 

No one forces anybody to watch any of those vids.

 

If you dont like them, dont watch them.

 

 

No need to discredit that guy.

No that's called Feedback. It's what separates a good source from well, most of the internet.

Using other people's feedback is how you make a choice of who to listen to. He's allowed to be wrong, but he's also not exempt form people saying he's wrong.

Let's just look at the facts and not get personal. Did Asus save money with their marketed "twin 8 VRM"? Yes. Is Asus charging more money for their inferior Z390 board? Yes. Do the phase 4 VRM run hotter than phase 8 VRMs? Yes. Is overclocking with a phase 4 VRM board arguably harder to do than a board with an 8 phase VRM? Yes.

 

Unless this Asus scandal turns out that having 'less is more' Asus has been trying to scam their customers. It doesn't get much more simpler than that. There's no sugar coating it just because up to now Asus' products have been sublime. Asus' reputation would have been taken a massive hit over this. Not because I said, but because people who buy their premiere products tend to use their brain to form their own opinions. Of course, Asus will now attempt to whoa back the customers they've lost to Gigabyte by releasing a board with stellar VRM set to blow the competition away, but we'll still be left asking ourselves " why" did Asus make such a stupid decision to market their "twin" BS!

Do you have any bench tests that definitively say their really double 4 is significantly worse than an 8 Phase? There's always a lot of factors involved with engineering decisions, And it would be great if those were more up front but marketers gotta market.

But, The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. Is this an Academic problem or an actual function problem, and to what degree?

This counter argument seems to say the Twin 4 appears to have a smoother faster load response than an extended 8 phase. https://www.overclock.net/forum/27685780-post2654.html and with less divergent behavior during load changes.

I'm wondering if the Marketing Gimmicks on both deployments are equally bad.

Throw my oar in the water here.

I got a couple 9900k CPUs very early, one of the first other than reviewers to get a CPU or two. I ordered the Asus Maximus Hero XI z390 board, and got it in early November.

Built a system around that, 9900k/Asus ROG Hero z390, 32 gb 3200 Gskill, M.2 1 TB drives, 2080tis, etc etc.

System ran great for 2 days. Hadn't overclocked it yet, just stock speeds, and then boom, blue screen of death about 49 hours into using it. Had to trouble shoot every component, and it came down to the motherboard.

I'll also mention that 2 of the SATA ports on this MB didn't work out of the box, but after putting the whole system together, I wasn't going to pull it apart and RMA the board for 2 ports I wasn't using anyway (I just used other ports that did work for my Evo 860 SSD drives).

Anyone who has had to do this knows what a GIANT PITA it is to figure out which component has died...was it the new CPU, the PSU, etc etc etc? You need another PC pretty much in order to swap things in and out of, and with how new the z390 and 9900k/2080ti/etc were a few months back, this took some doing. So, I had to buy a local Asrock MB as there was nothing else in stock close by in order to troubleshoot the CPU/PSU/2080ti, as all the usual steps for checking the MB wouldn't get it to post, and I was pretty sure it was the culprit then.

Contact NewEGG (first time dealing with them as I have a Canadian dealer MemoryExpress I almost always use, but they weren't getting the CPU/GPU for another 2 months back then), NewEgg tells me tough crap and to contact Asus. Put up a 1 star review on Newegg of the board, and Asus contacts me. Send them the board (at my expense). They tell me one of the socket pins was slightly bent, and void my warranty. The pin was NOT bent, I'll post pics of the board I took prior to sending it in. It wasn't even the socket which caused the failures, plus the 2 ports out of the box not working - they didn't care.

I've purchased dozens of Asus boards and GPUs in the past. Not to mention at least a dozen ROG LCD monitors including 2 4k 144hz PG27UQs, a 34" ROG Gsync, 3 27" ROG Gsync 2 of which were the 165hz IPS units, and 3 of the original 144hz 24" Asus gaming panels. Provided them receipts and serials of this. Asus didn't care.

To hell with Asus, I'll be actively avoiding them from now on. It's not the $, I spend thousands yearly (probably monthly is more accurate) on PC gaming gear, and the $350 CAD cost is negliable. It's just them not honoring their warranty that pisses me off. What happens with the 3 year warranty on the $2000 4k/27"/Gsync monitors if they fail in the future?

Thank you all for the entertainment. ;)