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HOTAS selection guidance for an aspiring sim pilot


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Heatblur will "soon" release its F-14 module and I want to start preparing to get most out of that experience - given constraints (more of that below). I am grateful for any educated advice the community could provide.

 

 

I am to renew my entry-level sim rig having nineties HOTAS (Saitek X36F & X35T) which served me well when Falcon 4.0 was the thing. Now though I think I need a new HOTAS, pedals and perhaps even a chair - while controls are primary here.

 

 

Before I took a dip into DCS World I thought Thrustmaster Warthog is no brainer choice once I would decide to upgrade my HOTAS. I must say my small number of hours with DCS has already been a childhood dream come true. The sim is so good and level detail is mind-blowing. I thought I was an avid hobbyist in flight sims but now I know I am really a early-stage learner. Starting to investigate the market a bit I am starting feel that TM Warthog is not actually the state of the art (for budget less than 1 k€ for HOTAS and pedals).

 

 

I ask of any educated comments and experience of a broader experience that what currently available HOTAS and pedals solution is recommended for a budget under 1 k€. I don't necessarily want spend the whole sum if there's no significant difference to a lets say a 500€ setup.

 

 

 

My main requirements, constraints and expectations. I like to...

 

* ...fly modern combat aircraft (while occasionally civilian too)

 

* ...have great number of functions

 

* ...have great precision and durability

 

* ...have authenticity of real plane - not mandatory - F14 sticks don't seem to come around in market today.

* I use TrackIR

* I can have some easily setup desk mounts but I occasionally want to clean my desk fully. The desk is full oak so it has some durability and structural strength.

* Thrustmaster's pendular rudder system seems to be the most sophisticated offering for pedals currently available.

* With stick and throttle I am confused between niche higher end offerings from Virpil, VKB, FSSB and likes. Or is mainstream TM Warthog really just as good while just different. It would be an easy option to procure.

 

 

 

I attached a picture of my current setup.

 

 

Thank you already for taking the time and consideration.

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My personal choice for an "ideal" setup for DCS today would be....

 

TM Warthog Throttle (it is sold separately)

VKB or Virpil Stick (the gimbals are better than the *TM Warthog)

MFG Crosswind pedals

TrackIR

 

All of the above would prob eat your whole budget, but they are best of breed for what is available today.

 

*The TM Warthog stick is a great product, and you would not regret getting one, but there are better options.

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My advice would be to stick with the TM Warthog stick and throttle for a year or so while the other brands sort out their issues. You will get the most help for setting up your HOTAS with the Warthog Hotas. The other brands may be good but they still have some issues.

As for rudders, again go with the cheap TM rudders for the time being to see if you really need the 300 to 500 dollar rudders.

 

Also, get a second monitor (touchscreen if possible) and learn to use Helios or Ikanus for the cockpit.

Trackir4 using the latest Trackir 5 software, Win10 Pro [Creator Update] updated from Win7Pro Pro 64Bit, Intel® Core™ i5-2500 3.30 GHz 6M Intel Smart Cache LGA115 , GigaByte GA-Z68XP-UD4 Intel Z68 Chipset DDR3 16GB Ram, GTX MSI Gaming 1060 [6 GB] Video Card, Main Monitor 1 on left 1920x1080 Touchscreen Monitor 2 on right 1920x1080 .

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One important question: how important is programming and macros to your decision? DCS is very customizable without programming the HOTAS itself, but if you itch for programmable functionality with a “realistic” HOTAS it starts and ends with the TM line. Of course, the programming is harder than the Saitek software of old, but for the most part you can program the TM HOTAS in C. See the profile in my signature if you want to see what you can do.

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Saitek used to be the most cost-effective alternative to high-end hardware. The twist stick could let you get away without rudder pedals if necessary. But in recent years, their quality has been iffy. Perhaps since Logitech bought them out that has changed. My last Saitek HOTAS was an X-52 Pro that was made prior to the drop in quality. It still works with only a dirty twisty stick potentiometer. I don't have experience with the X-55, X-56, or even the current build of the X-52 Pro. Reviews are mixed. People who haven't had problems love them, but the people with problems have been pretty vocal.

 

If I had to set somebody up for flight simming, and didn't want to spend so much money on a Warthog setup, $200 for a Saitek X-52 Pro is still a pretty good deal if you can live with a single throttle axis. But a Thrustmaster T-16000M FCS set complete with stick, throttle, and rudder pedals is only $150! I think this is the way to go unless you have money to burn on high end hardware like VKB, Virpil, and various custom rudder pedal setups.

 

Buying a Warthog is pretty expensive, especially if you can't get it for less than $400. Adding a good extension isn't cheap either. The VKB setup is even more expensive and has no throttle. Buying a VKB and a Warthog throttle is far from cheap... and you still need to get rudder pedals.

 

1. Consider that the Warthog is the HOTAS used overwhelmingly by most DCS flight simmers based on the poll. This fact is reflected by the DCS World support of premapped Warthog controls on many if not most modules.

 

2. For the time being, there is no better throttle especially if you are flying twin-engined jets. It is virtually identical to a real A-10C throttle and very similar to the F-15 and F/A-18 throttles. It is quite adequate for prop aircraft since there are three axis controls all in a line providing rpm, manifold pressure, and mixture controls or other axis like gunsight reticle.

 

3. While the throttle is sold separately, the price is so high that it didn't cost me that much more to just buy the entire package again, which can be commonly found on sale for less than $400. I got my first one for $350. My second one for $370. But I once saw them for for $300.

 

4. The price of the throttle vs the entire package is important, because the throttle has a design flaw that can result in it turning into a useless brick when the USB port receives power. My throttle lasted for many years until one day I unplugged it from a USB hub. The next time I plugged it in, it would no longer communicate correctly with Windows. Many people have had this problem and some of them had it happen fairly soon after purchase. It can only be fixed by ordering a new board from Thrustmaster. They did not have any boards available when I needed one, hence I bought another HOTAS because I didn't want to wait a month or more.

 

5. The Warthog stick has fairly hard springs and the mechanical interface feels very clunky around the center. A common problem with its gimbal system is "sticktion", a term for the friction felt when trying to move the stick a tiny bit after stopping movement. You have to apply a lot of force, which then makes the stick move farther than you want. Not the best thing for formation flying, precision air-to-air gunnery, or flying helicopters. The stick that I got when I replaced my throttle doesn't seem to have "sticktion", so maybe this problem was fixed with a new lubricant? Other people tend to disassemble and add their own preferred lubricant to overcome this problem.

 

6. If you have a way to mount the stick lower, a stick extension really brings out the best in the Warthog stick. It minimizes the friction and clunky gimbal mechanics while allowing you to tap into the high resolution precision of the hall effect sensors.

 

In spite of having a newer Warthog stick with no "stiction problems" and a nice extension, I decided to get a VKB MCG Pro. This stick cost more than the entire Warthog HOTAS combo. But the gimbal system was so highly rated that I decided to gamble on it. Not only did it feel as good as I had hoped decimating the feel of the Warthog near the center, but it came with a very nice extension and its control layout supports a much wider range of aircraft than the Warthog stick. In particular, the analog brake lever at the base of the stick is perfect for Russian aircraft and the Spitfire and many aircraft have some sort of gun trigger/safety lever similar to the one on this stick.

 

So the real question is, how much money do you have to blow on a HOTAS? Can you afford to risk having a Warthog throttle suddenly turn into a brick, which means you either lose time and money sending it out for warranty work or lose your warranty buying and replacing an internal board, or having to buy a new throttle? Also, are you going to simply be playing on a desktop or are you going to make some sort of home cockpit or virtual cockpit? The Warthog setup is by far the most cost effective way to build a home cockpit whereas the Saitek setups and T16000M favor desktop setups. If you get a Warthog, you still need to get rudder pedals, too!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Thank you all for your educated comments - I placed the order

 

Your comments and experiences are highly appreciated, thank you. It seems that TM WH is the most cost effective option in many ways. After some consideration I decided to place an order for Virpil's T-50 HOTAS (with WarBRD base), applicable desk mounts and dust covers.

 

 

 

Availability of these non-mainstream options seems a bit challenging but I hope Virpil is working on the topic to make it better experience for customers. They promote 28 day delivery estimate (perhaps just in time before Heatblur's F-14 launch - let's see :)

 

 

As for rudder I went with Thrustmasters TPR. Based on stories I encountered, it seems to me being unparalled.

 

 

I went somewhat above my indicated budget but I ultimately was drawn by the assumed functionality, durability and visual appeal.

 

 

Now, let's see how the delivery will go.

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keep an eye, or two, open for the next generation of VR headsets. the current offerings are pretty good, but with the next gen not too far off, you might want to wait.

 

If you have a good HOTAS, and the Warthog does me just fine, as with RL pilots, it will reduce if not remove the need to take your hands off it, to press keys etc, so tbe immersion will be almost total.

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I regularly track VKB's website. Good luck getting a hold of one. You could wait months while you play with a Warthog set that costs $400 US.

 

TM seems to be refreshing their high end line. The new pedals look nice. I'd been using the Saitek combat pedals for years. A potentiometer went out on the right brake axis, and they used a custom pot. Couldn't fix them, although I may salvage the metal pedals for something. I got some Crosswinds on order from MFG. Been using the TM TFRPs while I wait. Not bad kit for less than a $100 US.

 

Let us know what you think of the Virpil. I've almost ordered from them on several occasions

 

I just put a long curved cyclic style extension on my Warthog, did the lithium grease, and set it up as a center stick. Completely new stick. Like night and day. I'm waiting on a stiffer spring as it feels a little soft now. I'd played with either the table top or sidestick configuration for years. The only DCS mod that uses a sidestick IRL will be under development for several years. Instead of using your wrist to control the aircraft you use your arm and shoulder like a glider or aerobatic plane. It feels really good. You can make very precise maneuvers with the large throw. Only took me five minutes of tuning in DCS's axis curves to get it perfect.

 

If you fly prop aircraft. Pick up a Saitek Throttle quadrant. Highly recommended. Only $60 US and I use it all the time, I even have it mapped to cockpit lighting axis in the F-86 Sabre.

 

I'm personally waiting to see where VR goes over the next couple years. Hard to beat Track IR with a big screen. The price of Oculus has dropped, but for the price of Vive Pro you can get a nice 4K big screen.

 

 

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My first idea us to get the thrustmaster warthog hotas and two tm cougar mcfds.and the new tm tpr pedals. Then either trackIR or. VR

This will be bbase setup you can use for years until you decide to add and extension or two to the stick , a mod for the slew on the throttle.

 

If you don’t have a pit by now you should think about are you going to buy a prebuilt setup or build your own or you don’t have the room for either so you get mounts that work for your setup.

 

After. Several years your stick starts acting up so you decide. To upgrade your. Tm base. To either the. Virpril or vkb bases. You may say I need more. Buttons on the stick so you add a vkb or virpril stick or someone. Releases a f-14 stick. Hopefully before the tm throttle dies the vkb or virpril throttle is released.

 

Also you may fill that a generic or specific Bolton box will work for you.

 

Then if you get into helos you can scrap your current hotas and go with a pft puma or similar or add to your current setup by getting a max flight huey collective or one of the other collectives aviable .

 

Good luck in your decision

BlackeyCole 20years usaf

XP-11. Dcs 2.5OB

Acer predator laptop/ i7 7720, 2.4ghz, 32 gb ddr4 ram, 500gb ssd,1tb hdd,nvidia 1080 8gb vram

 

 

New FlightSim Blog at https://blackeysblog.wordpress.com. Go visit it and leave me feedback and or comments so I can make it better. A new post every Friday.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update - delivery done

 

With Thrustmaster everything went flawlessly in few days time with Amazon but I must say Virpil surprised me positively. I was telling myself not to start waiting as it may take a while but it happens that delivery is complete now after some 3 weeks.

 

 

Of course limited with experience yet still I must say that the Virpil and TM TPR as hardware are something extraordinary to me. The experience of flying virtually is really nice. Now there only needs to be that F14 "soon" arriving and it is a dream come true.

 

 

Attached is the updated view now.

IMG_4305.thumb.JPG.8437ba8c07b7f76f88284788971b1124.JPG

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