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Old 09-15-2020, 05:29 PM   #21
BuzzU
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because with the mouse your head movement moves the cursor. With the hand controllers they are independent and thus more natural. When you are use to it you can move something the size of the landing gear handle without it being in your FoV.


I don't understand that. I'll have to see it in action. How do you move the gear handle without looking at it?

The head doesn't move the mouse/cursor with Trackir. The hand does. Just like you're doing on the forum right now.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:53 PM   #22
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As others have mentioned, I've mapped a lot of Hornet DDI functions to my HOTAS including:
Radar range, azimuth, TWS/RWS mode selection, SA selection, HSI scale, and others by simply mapping the appropriate DDI OSB button.
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:52 PM   #23
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I don't understand that. I'll have to see it in action. How do you move the gear handle without looking at it?

The head doesn't move the mouse/cursor with Trackir. The hand does. Just like you're doing on the forum right now.
I don't use Track IR, so let me know if I get something there wrong.


Track IR, moving the mouse moves the cursor within your FoV. If you pan your FoV you pan the cursor as well (it stays fixed relative to your FoV if you do not move your hand).


VR with Mouse, same as above. CAN be used to map mouse functions to a HOTAS so that you can look at things and click them through HOTAS


VR with hand grip controllers, moving the controllers in 3D real space moves a pair of virtual hands in 3D virtual space. The system does not care where your head is looking, the hands exist in 3D virtual space without regard to your FoV. These virtual hands can be used to manipulate nearly any system NOT part of HOTAS.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:05 PM   #24
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I don't use Track IR, so let me know if I get something there wrong.


Track IR, moving the mouse moves the cursor within your FoV. If you pan your FoV you pan the cursor as well (it stays fixed relative to your FoV if you do not move your hand).


VR with Mouse, same as above. CAN be used to map mouse functions to a HOTAS so that you can look at things and click them through HOTAS


VR with hand grip controllers, moving the controllers in 3D real space moves a pair of virtual hands in 3D virtual space. The system does not care where your head is looking, the hands exist in 3D virtual space without regard to your FoV. These virtual hands can be used to manipulate nearly any system NOT part of HOTAS.

Ok, I see. However, the hands can't feel, so don't you still need to look to see what switch you're flipping?


You're right about the cursor in Trackir. It stays fixed on the screen. Again just like what you're seeing here on the forum. Just move it to the edge of the screen if you don't want to see it. I do that all the time when in the cockpit, so I don't have to look at the cursor. It's not always needed if you just want to look at guages or what position a switch is in.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:55 PM   #25
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as Fri 13 said, muscle memory. Or my experience is that I can glance briefly to get my hand in the right place and then go back to looking away while I leave my hand in place to move the switch. Personally I go back and forth because neither option is exactly how I wish it was.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:03 PM   #26
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Ok.
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:11 AM   #27
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Fri13.......How does that work exactly? How do you flip a switch that's not on your HOTAS?
Move a hand and flip it in the cockpit. Little similar way than with a mouse, except I don't grab a mouse but a Touch Controller and then I reach the switch with my hand from its position.

This creates the muscle memory and teaches quickly the cockpit layouts, and especially process what you can operate on left or right hand, as you need to let go off the stick to operate the right side of the cockpit as you can't reach something on right side with your left hand.

It will teach to how operate the aircraft at different manner. Example:

In a AV-8B Harrier you do not have possibility to fire a TPOD laser by stick trigger like in Hornet, but by pressing a OBS button on MFCD to fire the laser and turn off the laser.
But you don't either need to activate the laser after each firing from right side panel like in Hornet.
By default the TPOD video is put on your right MFCD, so if you want to fire the laser you need to use your right hand to press the button on right MFCD to do so.

And it becomes fairly annoying to actually fly a turn away when you need to use right hand at proper time to start lazing for just dropped GBU-12.
Very quickly with requirement to move hands around, you will learn that having the TPOD on the right MFCD is not wise, so you learn to place the TPOD video to the left MFCD. Now you have your right hand on the stick all the time and you can fire the laser with the left hand when it is more free (you do need your left hand to operate TDC on throttle).

In other situations you learn what is better layout for them at different way than if you would just press HOTAS buttons or use a mouse.
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:32 AM   #28
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Ok, I see. However, the hands can't feel, so don't you still need to look to see what switch you're flipping?
Yes, but it is time saving as gear lever is so visible at your left that you see it with corner of eye easily. You do not need to look away from HUD when landing as you see both same time.
Difference is that you are not hunting your mouse cursor as your hand is the operator. So you know that the landing gear lever is just next to your left knee, you move your hand there, you just check by glancing the lever before you flip it down/up.

You do not focus to mouse cursor or anything like that.

At early days it was joystick + keyboard + mouse.
Later it became HOTAS + Mouse + Keyboard, but HOTAS binds were more for everything.
Then TrackIR made keyboard less required but still there.
After VR made keyboard less wanted, but it was HOTAS + Mouse and it was possible scratch display from setup.
Finally the VR with virtual hands in cockpit made possible remove mouse and keyboard, so you have just HOTAS, and HOTAS has just real functions. Of course HOTAS needs all bindings in FC3 aircrafts, but in clickable cockpits it is without any extras.


The ultimate situation would be that your hands are detected and you could just use your physical HOTAS and your hands would follow properly in the cockpit without extra controllers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZrL6HOtmUI

But that with the fingers without gloves, so you actually just push things with your finger in the air.

The difference is huge, as you don't need to memorize the HOTAS binding combos or modes or anything like that. In heat of action you don't search mouse cursor or try to keep your head steady or anything like that at all.

For me flying FC3 aircrafts is boring and not so immersive as I am constantly pulled out from the virtual reality when I need to think the binding combo, when I see the function in the cockpit itself and I can't touch it.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:40 PM   #29
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The ultimate would be to build a cockpit with all switches, guages, and MFD's as the real plane.

That takes a ton of money though and way too expensive for my budget.
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:10 PM   #30
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The ultimate would be to build a cockpit with all switches, guages, and MFD's as the real plane.

That takes a ton of money though and way too expensive for my budget.
This setup cost me $250CAD off Amazon (Talking about the Cougar MFDs and makeshift "UFC")
Im using it with VR. With a little muscle memory, and peaking under my headset occasionally, it really changed the way I interact with the cockpit. No more fiddling around with the mouse for most critical tasks, especially in the middle of a fight.

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B076LRJ528/..._ZPJyFbJ2ENNT4
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B002HH9TRY/..._yQJyFbP2HTJBK
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