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Old 10-09-2019, 01:41 PM   #51
Fri13
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Originally Posted by Scarecrow84 View Post
I was one of the biggest critics back when the first gaz FM debates were raging. What happened to the guys who refused to admit something is way off about the cyclic, fly-by-wire dynamics, etc....? Maybe next time we can drop the knee jerk dev defending and thereby encourage a more timely development schedule? Just a thought, guys.
It is hard time when you spend literally years of your life to develop something. You learn new things (first helicopter project?) and you really trust and believe that you have worked all right.

And then you get messages from virtual pilots telling that something is badly wrong. And if someone starts to do personal insults or even just insults toward the project, there is zero received from the feedback and you just get the negative attitude from developers that they know better.

The cooperation between developers/engineers/designers and the customers/users is two way road. Both needs to have a respect toward each others and good faith.

Like personally for me, I still find Gazelle flight behavior too odd. And before I accept a new module from Polychop Simulations, I would like to see that Gazelle receives the flight modeling updated and fixed as good as possible. Not just because what PS has done, but the general situation in the DCS is currently that there is too many modules waiting something to be done. Many of those are completely depending what ED is doing, like their completely new rotor simulation that they are doing and that needs to be applied to all helicopters in DCS.

So for the company to improve the customer relationships, I recommend to show support first for the older products than release a new one, if that is just possible.

It is great that we are getting a Kiowa for DCS, it is something the AH-1S pilots will come to value a lot. And hopefully we see first the Gazelle pilots to get the bird flying as suppose so we can have more fun meanwhile Kiowa is coming.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:45 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
Yes, it will come in the future.

But do not ask is it 2 months or 5 years, all we know it is just in 2 weeks.
When the f18 and f16 are over, 2 years and 2 weeks the announcement of the AH 64 apache for DCS, woooo
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:47 PM   #53
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When the f18 and f16 are over, 2 years and 2 weeks the announcement of the AH 64 apache for DCS, woooo
Remember ED has building a Mi-24P and follow a AH-1F. Wags talk some time ago about a AH-64 like see into DCS by ED.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:27 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Scarecrow84 View Post
I will definitely be purchasing if the Kiowa and Gazelle updates live up to these promises. Agile, light helicopters for these awesome new maps to me is just a no-brainer...


I was one of the biggest critics back when the first gaz FM debates were raging. What happened to the guys who refused to admit something is way off about the cyclic, fly-by-wire dynamics, etc....? Maybe next time we can drop the knee jerk dev defending and thereby encourage a more timely development schedule? Just a thought, guys.


I have actually had lots of fun with the module recently in the Minigun version (best cockpit visibility in DCS) and the L version for combat. I love sneaking around buildings and making hit and run dive attacks. Some of the most fun I've had in a sim, honestly. The "fraternity sim" server is great for this, btw.


In case DCS is reading this, if the Kiowa comes out at a high level of all-around quality, I also plan to buy probably $200 worth of other maps and aircraft with it. This might be something to consider...Some helo guys might be holding back on other purchases while waiting for our modules and updates. Just sayin.


Also just wanted to point out that, according to helisimmer.com, MSFS 2020 is not going to ship with any helos. So Polychop could not only be the only name in the game as far as quality helicopter simulation (in terms of environment graphics, multiplayer, etc.) you could potentially be looking at a huge influx of new sim customers in the near future. They will have no where else to go for light helicopters. Sounds like a good opportunity to me.
I'm still here. I was the most vocal defender of the Gazelle so I'm going to assume you meant me. But I got over arguing. And I didn't refuse to admit there was a problem at all. I did a lengthy write up once on the good and bad of the flight model. But overall I thought it felt pretty damn good to me as long as you were flying it within the normal flight envelope with the disclaimer I'm using an actual cyclic and collective and not a hotas which I think makes a huge difference.

I also stopped defending it as the other bugs started piling up though. I wasn't upset about them but I understood why people were. I wasn't concerned though because the Gazelle is an old module and the first module from a small studio. They did their best with coding the FM but as time went on I'm guessing the limitations in the core code were discovered that would require they pretty much rebuild the Gazelle from scratch. So they make the 58 with the idea of back porting the new technology to the gaz and tuning the new model from there. Is it ideal? No. In a perfect world it would go straight to the gaz. But that's probably not practical considering what a small team it is and that they have pay people. Look at the rushed state of the F-16 and how much more resources its dev has...

Anyway this is only my perspective from the outside looking in and hopefully I'm not stepping on the devs toes woth my assumptions. But I'm happy the gaz has a coder working on the bugs and that it's going to get new fm technology. I'm excited for the 58 and its a day 1 buy for me but I understand the people who have a "put your money where you mouth is and we'll see" attitude.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:54 PM   #55
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We should give credit to Polychop for their new communication strategy with the users. They also publicly admitted that the gazelle FM did not meet everyone's expectations and that they are working on improving it. So let's not beat a dead horse now.

Let's also keep in mind that developing a chopper is an order of magnitude more complex than developing a fixed wing. Few 3rd parties would face the risk of going after a niche market like RW sim considering the complexity of developing such a machine. The continuous Polychop bashing certainly deterred other 3rd parties to go into RW and as such it contributed to weaken the already fragile DCS RW community.

By going forward with the OH-58D, Polychop is taking on a huge challenge:
- the systems on the 58 will most likely make this chopper the most complex one system wise available in DCS.
- unlike for the gazelle, there are a lot of people around that have IRL experience either on the 58 or the 206 and that also fly DCS.
- they are aware of the multiple frustrations from Gazelle customers and they have no choice but to impress the community for this new module.

Like most people here, I will not think a second to buy or even pre order this module (most likely several licences if multi crew is implemented) and I know for sure it will be a big hit in the DCS RW community as it combines several advantages from other modules:
- like the Ka-50 it will hopefully have complex systems to learn and a long range anti tank guided missile capability
- like the Gazelle, it will have thermal vision for night ops
- like the Huey, it's a familiar and iconic chopper in the western hemisphere
- if ED manage to correctly implement multicrew, this chopper is begging for this capability and we will have as many people willing to fly as people willing to operate the left seat.

At BSD, we are expecting a massive surge of activity when this module is coming out and it is very welcome. We are already starting to study the official training program for this chopper and see what we will need to change and adapt in our current training one to integrate the 58 in our operations.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:40 PM   #56
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I'm not going to forget their past immediately after a new decision through their PR on working on the Gazelle and announcing the Kiowa. Polychop does have some criticism respectively due to them, and I quite frankly doubt that the community will forget about it until big changes appear. The work will speak louder than their words.

Anyhow, looking forward to seeing this module like anyone else. I hope it turns out well.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:47 PM   #57
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Well said Bad CrC
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:07 AM   #58
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While I am interested in this potential module I will not commit to it until such time as the wishy washy flight model of the Gazelle is redressed. If Polychop were to resolve this issue then I am sure they will get many more people willing to commit to the OH-58D.
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Old 10-10-2019, 03:08 PM   #59
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Exclusive by Helisimmer, talking about the OH-58D and a video. Other news, the improves on Gazelle.

Remember:
Quote:
Before we start, a warning: there are NO GUARANTEES that the Kiowa will see the light of day as Polychop and Eagle Dynamics are still negotiating contracts.
https://www.helisimmer.com/articles/...VThp1NdOHwKH9k
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:42 PM   #60
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Great news for DCS and helicopter sim enthusiasts. Thank you Polychop for keeping the Gazelle in the road map and also for the future inclusion of the Hellfire missile. Insta-buy for me.
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