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Old 08-13-2019, 07:13 PM   #761
Callsign.Vega
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So I've spent quite a few hours playing games back and forth between my modded Vive Pro (Odyssey+ OLED panel transplant [same panels as Vive Pro but with anti-SDE layer] + GearVR non Fresnel lenses) and the Index and here is what I came up with:

Vive Pro Positive:
1. Black levels.
2. Contrast.
3. Colors.
4. Clarity - mainly due to GearVR lenses. Yay for non-Fresnel!
5. Basically no god-rays.
6. No ghosting/trailing of objects under movement (OLED needs no overdrive). This makes up a lot for the lower 90 Hz refresh rate.
7. No pixel inversion artifacts.
8. USB-C DAC can plug in right at the face side/top of the headset out of the way.
9. Anti-SDE layer on the OLED panels makes up for the worse pentile panel matrix.
10. Can't see the edges of the panels.

Vive Pro Negatives:
1. Slight "graininess" viewable from the anti-SDE layer on the Odyssey+ OLED's versus the stock Vive Pro OLED's without the layer.
2. Less FoV than the Index.
3. Slight barrel distortion that needs to be fixed with a .cfg edit.
4. Maybe slightly more eye fatigue, still trying to narrow this down but it's hard when switching back and forth between headsets as eye fatigue doesn't go away quickly.

Wash:
1. Index's speakers definitely kill the Vive Pro's but it is a wash for me due to still using high end IEM's. Even though they Index speakers are decent, they cannot compare to the IEM's.
2. Index is more comfortable than a stock Vive Pro, but the Vive Pro is comparable once you put aftermarket padding on it.
3. Sweet spot seem comparable and no real issue with either.

Index Positives:
1. Wider FoV.
2. No barrel or other world geometry issues.
3. Low SDE due to the full RGB panels instead of pentile.
4. 120/144Hz gives a slightly better motion smoothness.
5, Possible less eye fatigue.

Index Negatives:
1. Vertical lines during movement caused by LCD pixel inversion. Seriously annoying.
2. Clarity, static viewing is around modded Vive Pro levels but the vertical line issue makes everything look worse in motion.
3. Colors.
4. Contrast.
5. Black levels.
6. Obvious ghosting due to much slower LCD pixels.
7. God rays a-plenty.
8. USB DAC has to plug in the frunk, leading to some messy cable routing for IEM's.
9. The Fresnel lenses of the Index just don't give you that clarity of the modded Vive Pro.
10. Can see the "squaring off" of the edges of the panels.


It would be interesting to test the Index again if someone finds a non-Fresnel lens mod for it. Overall the modded Vive Pro OLED image "pop", non Fresnel lens clarity and no movement anomalies like the Index's vertical lines make it a fairly clear winner for me. LCD just can't compete with OLED and clear lenses.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:20 PM   #762
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Fascinating how different people can have such different perceptions when looking at the same piece of kit. (I mean that as a general comment not just in relation to the above.)
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:23 PM   #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldrick33 View Post
A Windows reinstall did the trick to get the Index working, reinstalling DCS now
I had to do that to get my Rift S to be recognized. What a PITA. lol
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:38 PM   #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imacken View Post
Fascinating how different people can have such different perceptions when looking at the same piece of kit. (I mean that as a general comment not just in relation to the above.)
Yeah, you tend to see that alot when getting opinions on anything "visual display" like. Some people are much more aware of certain things (refresh rate being a classic example) also some people are impressed with certain things, while not caring about others. For example if you showed a RiftS to someone, and then a CV1 they would probably immediately comment on SDE being worse, but colors being better. But if they only had the S, they wouldn't really have a point of reference.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:47 PM   #765
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Originally Posted by imacken View Post
Guys, can you do me a favour and tell if you see either of these things in the ROV Test FOV and Resolution environment in SteamVR https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1359389601
1) look at the red ball on the shelf in the FOV section. Is it jumping around when you stare at it?
2) look at the section with the parallel vertical black and white bars. Does the horizontal line at the top sort of jump around as well?
Any input appreciated.
I just tested it and I don't see this but I can see why this can happen in your case. Three possibilities.

1. IPD isn't set correctly so you see split images jumping back and forth, especially if you do not have a dominant eye. You can close one eye and open while looking at that spot to test, and this is why I won't buy headsets without manual IPD adjustment because for me it is crucial to get this type of optimal settings for my own use.

2. IPD is set correctly but you have different PDs between left and right side. In medicine, we actually use left PD and right PD (measured from nose bridge) since a lot of people don't have complete facial symmetry (I'm an MD), your left and right PD may not be the same. You can have PDs measured by your eye doctor or at glasses shops. The way to correct this unfortunately is to manually shift your headset in horizontal position to try to compensate, as there is no headsets out there that allow separate PD adjustments.

3. IPD is set correctly and your LPD and RPD is the same, but your eyes orientation is off axis (for example, one eye socket is slightly higher than the other). This can be compensated by rotating your headset either clockwise or counter-clockwise while looking at that particular spot until the two images merge.

That particular scene is an excellent environment to test VR headsets, as it can tell you a lot about your own vision and how to wear your headset optimally in order to achieve perfect focus.
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Last edited by Supmua; 08-13-2019 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:57 PM   #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supmua View Post
I just tested it and I don't see this but I can see why this can happen in your case. Three possibilities.

1. IPD isn't set correctly so you see split images jumping back and forth, especially if you do not have a dominant eye. You can close one eye and open while looking at that spot to test, and this is why I won't buy headsets without manual IPD adjustment because for me it is crucial to get this type of optimal settings for my own use.

2. IPD is set correctly but you have different PDs between left and right side. In medicine, we actually use left PD and right PD (measured from nose bridge) since a lot of people don't have complete facial symmetry (I'm an MD), your left and right PD may not be the same. You can have PDs measured by your eye doctor or at glasses shops. The way to correct this unfortunately is to manually shift your headset in horizontal position to try to compensate, as there is no headsets out there that allow separate PD adjustments.

3. IPD is set correctly and your LPD and RPD is the same, but your eyes orientation is off axis (for example, one eye socket is slightly higher than the other). This can be compensated by rotating your headset either clockwise or counter-clockwise while looking at that particular spot until the two images merge.

That particular scene is an excellent environment to test VR headsets, as it can tell you a lot about your own vision and how to wear your headset optimally in order to achieve perfect focus.
Thanks for that. Interesting theories! However, I have the IPD correctly set as per my optician value, but more importantly I don’t get this issue on my Vive Pro with the same IPD set.
If you don’t see these 2 effects, what SS are you running in SteamVR?
Yes, that environment is incredibly useful for testing VR headsets.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:47 AM   #767
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Returned the Index after side by side comparisons with Rift S. It’s just not worth it imo
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:31 AM   #768
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Imacken, go back to that scene and close one eye and see if the red ball or the lines still jump around. This has nothing to do with whether your vision is correctly measured or not. I assume you wear your glasses inside the headset?

If you are seeing things that jump around when they are not supposed to, that isn’t normal. And I doubt this is optical illusion or visual hallucination or problem with the LCD panel.
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Last edited by Supmua; 08-14-2019 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:53 AM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supmua View Post
Imacken, go back to that scene and close one eye and see if the red ball or the lines still jump around. This has nothing to do with whether your vision is correctly measured or not. I assume you wear your glasses inside the headset?

If you are seeing things that jump around when they are not supposed to, that isn’t normal. And I doubt this is optical illusion or visual hallucination or problem with the LCD panel.
Thanks again.
No difference if I close one eye, or if I am wearing glasses or not. Still the same jerky red ball.
I am also experiencing occasional jerky cockpits in some DCS modules.
Points to a hardware issue I would say.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:07 AM   #770
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It seems so. I don’t think this problem has ever been reported, but I also doubt most people would bother to test their headsets the way you did.

One Q though, do you see this across diff frequency settings? 144 vs 120 vs 90 Hz.

Another possibility that I could think of is tracking issue. That could cause images to shift around. Maybe change the lighthouse positioning and see.
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Last edited by Supmua; 08-14-2019 at 08:13 AM.
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