Valve Index Hands On - Page 71 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-07-2019, 10:25 AM   #701
RedX
Junior Member
 
RedX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 74
Default

Got Index installed yesterday and immediately I noticed that while otherwise the headset is just great for me, the vertical lines appear in my headset, too. They are briefly visible when rotating my head horizontally and the effect is slightly stronger on the left dislay. Overall strength is such that it is semi-disturbing. Brings a feeling like I would be looking the scenery on a CCTV display (which actually is not far from truth, LOL).Strength of the effect depends strongly on the color and brightness of the region I look at. Most strongly it can be seen on certain shades of gray or grayish colors. I get the feeling that it may have something to do with pixel "overdrive" fine-tuning settings that are used to improve the temporal response of lcd. On the other hand I found no impact when changing refresh rates.

Now I cant decide whether to try my luck with customer support and potential replacement if the issue is not addressed yet.

Other than that I love the audio solution, adjustability of eye-to-lens distance (i can tune it so that my eyelashes just barely dont bring dirt on the lenses) , IPD slider (having large IPD), materials of the parts that are against your skin, and build quality.

The headset is clearly heavier than Rift CV1, maybe similar to Vive Pro.

Colors get little distorted towards the edges but clarity outside center area is much better than in vive pro as has been written earlier many times. Resolution is not super great but definitely big improvement over Rift CV1 (only the smallest markings need to be zoomed in to be read) and my rig could not handle any more pixels than this anyways.

For some reason the F18 center display (color screen) is still barely readable while the others are very clear to read.
Does anyone have suggestions as to which values to use with Index in the file that sets the line and shadow thicknesses of the F18 color display?
__________________
Spoiler:
Intel Core i7 9700K@4.6GHz|ASUS Strix Z390-H|G.Skill DDR4 32GB@3200MHz|MSI GeForce RTX 2080 Ti|2xSSD 500GB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 RAID0|SSD Samsung 850 EVO|Corsair HX 750W|Fractal Design Define R6 Blackout|UWQHD 34"|Valve Index|Logitech G9|MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000|VPC WarBRD Base+MongoosT-50CM2 Grip|VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle|VKB T-Rudder|Beyerdynamic DT770|Boom mic|Windows 10 Home

Last edited by RedX; 08-07-2019 at 10:38 AM.
RedX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2019, 11:34 AM   #702
Brixmis
Senior Member
 
Brixmis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Far From The Madding Crowd
Posts: 2,015
Default

Hey, guys - base station 2 firmware update today - stops the whining noise! Awesome one.

@RedX - welcome to the club. Valve have said the vertical lines are "expected bahaviour" so they are not trying to fix it, as they say there is nothing wrong to fix.

As for whether support would do a replacement, well they might - especially if you tell them it's particularly disrupting your gameplay, it's worth trying.
__________________
Rig:Asus Z87-Pro ; i5 4690k @ 4.3GHz ; 16GB 2400MHz RAM ; RTX2060 (overclocked) ; all SSD drives ; HD TFT ; TIR 4 ; Valve Index ; Oculus Rift CV1 ; TM MFDs ; UFC ; Saitek Cessna Pro Pedals ; Virpil T50 HOTAS


DCSW Pictorial Guides

Last edited by Brixmis; 08-07-2019 at 11:37 AM.
Brixmis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2019, 07:46 PM   #703
Supmua
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 494
Default

They changed the base station behavior in the latest SteamVR. Instead of turning off and on it continues to spin, unless you put the PC to sleep or shut it off.

I’ve been trying to reproduce the vertical line issues (haven’t seen it with mine). What would be the most likely scenarios that this would come up?
__________________
PC: 9900K/2080Ti, 32GB RAM.
Joystick bases: TMWx2, VPC WarBRD, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L
Joystick grips: TMW, TM F/A-18, F-16SGRH, Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro, MongoosT50-CM2
Throttles: TMWx2
VR: HTC Vive/Pro/Oculus Rift/Valve Index.
Supmua is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2019, 08:22 PM   #704
Brixmis
Senior Member
 
Brixmis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Far From The Madding Crowd
Posts: 2,015
Default

It's very obvious right in the SteamVR home - look on the wall, where your library is displayed. The light grey blocks would show it. Not everyone has it, though, apparently - some say every headset has it, but not veeryone can actually see it - but it's all conjecture, as no-one really knows.

There's a picture here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/...ertical_lines/

Some geezer has turned up on Reddit, claiming to have found a software solution, but I think he's just baiting.
__________________
Rig:Asus Z87-Pro ; i5 4690k @ 4.3GHz ; 16GB 2400MHz RAM ; RTX2060 (overclocked) ; all SSD drives ; HD TFT ; TIR 4 ; Valve Index ; Oculus Rift CV1 ; TM MFDs ; UFC ; Saitek Cessna Pro Pedals ; Virpil T50 HOTAS


DCSW Pictorial Guides
Brixmis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 01:02 AM   #705
Supmua
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brixmis View Post
It's very obvious right in the SteamVR home - look on the wall, where your library is displayed. The light grey blocks would show it. Not everyone has it, though, apparently - some say every headset has it, but not veeryone can actually see it - but it's all conjecture, as no-one really knows.

There's a picture here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/...ertical_lines/

Some geezer has turned up on Reddit, claiming to have found a software solution, but I think he's just baiting.

I don't have the vertical line issue with my headset, now that I know what to look for. Wonder if it is some sort of signal interference.

That picture is misleading though, as it showed zero SDE. In the real world use there is a bit of SDE that you can see with the Index, although it is minimized when you get real close to the object of focus.
__________________
PC: 9900K/2080Ti, 32GB RAM.
Joystick bases: TMWx2, VPC WarBRD, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L
Joystick grips: TMW, TM F/A-18, F-16SGRH, Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro, MongoosT50-CM2
Throttles: TMWx2
VR: HTC Vive/Pro/Oculus Rift/Valve Index.
Supmua is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 06:56 AM   #706
RedX
Junior Member
 
RedX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 74
Default

I heard a rumor that the lines may disappear after some hours of use. We'll see. It might have something to do with fine-tuning of the analog section of electronics, hard to say. If it persists I will contact support and see what they say.
__________________
Spoiler:
Intel Core i7 9700K@4.6GHz|ASUS Strix Z390-H|G.Skill DDR4 32GB@3200MHz|MSI GeForce RTX 2080 Ti|2xSSD 500GB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 RAID0|SSD Samsung 850 EVO|Corsair HX 750W|Fractal Design Define R6 Blackout|UWQHD 34"|Valve Index|Logitech G9|MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000|VPC WarBRD Base+MongoosT-50CM2 Grip|VPC MongoosT-50 Throttle|VKB T-Rudder|Beyerdynamic DT770|Boom mic|Windows 10 Home
RedX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 07:40 AM   #707
Alec Delorean
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 253
Default

@Supmua


I was thinking about the same, signal interference. Maybe some people have more EMI radiation sources nearby, which have a slight impact on the current that is needed to drive the RGB subpixels for certain colors. A very small deviation is enough to cause a slight delay on the signal, which leads to the effect they see in the HMD. Maybe better shielding or ferrite cores for the cable could help? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_core
The downside is, you can't just take any ferrite core, you have to know exactly the frequencies needed for the panels.
Alec Delorean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 08:24 AM   #708
Brixmis
Senior Member
 
Brixmis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Far From The Madding Crowd
Posts: 2,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedX View Post
I heard a rumor that the lines may disappear after some hours of use. We'll see. It might have something to do with fine-tuning of the analog section of electronics, hard to say. If it persists I will contact support and see what they say.
Valve reckon it should go away as the headset warms up - this is the standard answer they are sending out. It doesn't though - not a single person of those who have said they have this issue have had it resolved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec Delorean View Post
@Supmua


I was thinking about the same, signal interference. Maybe some people have more EMI radiation sources nearby, which have a slight impact on the current that is needed to drive the RGB subpixels for certain colors. A very small deviation is enough to cause a slight delay on the signal, which leads to the effect they see in the HMD. Maybe better shielding or ferrite cores for the cable could help? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_core
The downside is, you can't just take any ferrite core, you have to know exactly the frequencies needed for the panels.

I did extensive investigations and testing in this regard - and came up with nothing. It made zero difference to the issue. Not just with my gaming gear - I also set up a completely different PC in a different location specifically to check for EMI effects and ran a number of tests and there was no change.

There are credible sounding theories about the cause - but they are hardware based and I honestly don't know enough about LCD technology to be able to comment on them.

PS - not that it matters for me, now. I have decided not to refund the headset (to buy another one later) which I was considering. Even with this issue, the headset is such a game changer for me that I will just hope for the best and in the meantime try to look past it. Literally.
__________________
Rig:Asus Z87-Pro ; i5 4690k @ 4.3GHz ; 16GB 2400MHz RAM ; RTX2060 (overclocked) ; all SSD drives ; HD TFT ; TIR 4 ; Valve Index ; Oculus Rift CV1 ; TM MFDs ; UFC ; Saitek Cessna Pro Pedals ; Virpil T50 HOTAS


DCSW Pictorial Guides

Last edited by Brixmis; 08-08-2019 at 08:26 AM.
Brixmis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 09:06 AM   #709
Brixmis
Senior Member
 
Brixmis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Far From The Madding Crowd
Posts: 2,015
Default

For those who'd like more...

https://old.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/...gh_the_lenses/
__________________
Rig:Asus Z87-Pro ; i5 4690k @ 4.3GHz ; 16GB 2400MHz RAM ; RTX2060 (overclocked) ; all SSD drives ; HD TFT ; TIR 4 ; Valve Index ; Oculus Rift CV1 ; TM MFDs ; UFC ; Saitek Cessna Pro Pedals ; Virpil T50 HOTAS


DCSW Pictorial Guides
Brixmis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2019, 10:31 AM   #710
Supmua
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 494
Default

Some claimed this happened across all LCD headsets such as Pimax, Rift S, Reverb to a lesser degree.

I also wonder if this problem is unique to individual’s visual perception. If you have this issue see if your friends or family can spot the artifacts using the exact same headset.
__________________
PC: 9900K/2080Ti, 32GB RAM.
Joystick bases: TMWx2, VPC WarBRD, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L
Joystick grips: TMW, TM F/A-18, F-16SGRH, Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro, MongoosT50-CM2
Throttles: TMWx2
VR: HTC Vive/Pro/Oculus Rift/Valve Index.
Supmua is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:07 PM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.