M2000C Sound alarm when landing!

Keep It Simple...Landing of M2000C

Am quite surprised how complicated some users landing process is.

Download Chuck's Guide for M2000C and study pages 50,51 &52 and look at the training video

1 of 3. Chucks's Guides for DCS aircraft are excellent to study things. Free and clear and easy to understand and are at: http://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs/

Forget about trim upon landing and instead balance throttle and joystick to do it smooth and gentle upon touchdown...if alarm bothers you then use LALT+A (autopilot into standby mode) before landing/touchdown which will set trim to neutral position....if it is no bother then do not use LALT+A and tolerate the alarm.

I recommend: *raising pilots seat with 5 right clicks of mouse

*enable FBW G-Limiter mode (toggle down) - is just below landing green lights, as this will make joystick input not so sensitive, then reset warning light.

*always align plane to airstrip a long way out

*landing gear down at 230knots or less

*do not apply brakes until 100knots or less and do so in a pulse manner...apply for 1second, off for 1 second

*upon touchdown keep front wheel of the ground for as long as possible so wings act as huge airbrake

*use airbrakes too for extra braking as well upon touchdown

*turn on nose wheel steering under 50knots

Hope this helps with Landing of M2000C......Gary

if alarm bothers you then use LALT+A (autopilot into standby mode) before landing/touchdown which will set trim to neutral position

Caution, this is wrong. Before landing, it will trim the aircraft for current flying condition. It may be that it's trim neutral, but that's sheer chance, and most probably won't be the case when approaching at 14° AoA ;)

Thanks Azrayen...it does seem that there is quite a bit of variation as to how to land M2000C.

My method works well for me and considers the real world situation where landing is one of the most risky aspects of flying and a busy time for any pilot. I like it to be as least busy as possible so I can focus (without annoying beep of master caution) on the motor skill of flying; especially regards balancing of throttle and joystick to touch down like a feather. Am good at it as I have practised landing well over a thousand times at least on this plane using this method. For example I like landing the Mirage on the very short Echo Bay airport in Nevada as it is very difficult to do this especially with a Delta wing jet such as the Mirage. Using LALT+A prior to landing works for me and causes no problems to cause a bad landing.

Understand that others will have their own version of how to land this plane which I respect.

After many attempts I recently managed to land the Harrier Jet VTOL at the bottom pad of the Hoover Dam. I should mention I have something of an obsession with fine motor skill aspects of flying and doing it in a manual way even though many aircraft have much automation. Gary

I don't believe it works. I tested it to be sure, and got the alarm.

So either it's a luck thing, either I haven't been able to reproduce what you do exactly.

What you call "my" version is the way it's done IRL (so I would go as far as to say it considers very well the real word situation ;)). Now, feel free to diverge from that if you feel better, it's not at all a concern for me :)

I recommend: *raising pilots seat with 5 right clicks of mouse

*select approach mode on PCA (yellow caution light will come on) - Look at page 50 of Chucks Guide mentioned earlier and video 1/3 on page 51

*enable FBW G-Limiter mode (toggle down) - is just below landing green lights, as this will make joystick input not so sensitive, then reset warning light.

*do LCTRL+A so autopilot standby engaged so trim is neutral

*always align plane to airstrip a long way out

*landing gear down at 230knots or less

*touchdown between 150>160knots

*do not apply brakes until 100knots or less and do so in a pulse manner...apply for 1second, off for 1 second

*just before touchdown increase power slightly to float the plane slightly so soft landing

*upon touchdown keep front wheel of the ground for as long as possible so wings act as huge airbrake

*if needed use airbrakes too for extra braking as well upon touchdown, if landing on short runway also use landing chute

*turn on nose wheel steering under 50knots

Remember I do not want any trim upon landing and prefer to balance throttle power with pitch changes of joystick...what I am doing is a combination of Chucks guide page 50, video 1/3 on page 51 of Chuck guide and using LCTRL+A as above.

As stated before this method works well for me...I do not think it is the correct way or anything like that but I get the result I want of a smooth landing and no beep beep beep and I have been doing this for a long time.

Chuck guide download is at: http://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs/ download his manual for M2000C

Try this method and maybe you may like it...Gary

*select approach mode on PCA (yellow caution light will come on)

What caution? Do you mean the "S" light under the button? That's not a caution, just an indication that the mode is Selected. :)

*enable FBW G-Limiter mode (toggle down) - is just below landing green lights, as this will make joystick input not so sensitive, then reset warning light.

Maybe that's when you do that, that the amber Master Caution comes On ;)

BTW you're not "enabling" the limiter (it's always enabled); you're setting it to the "heavy load" setting. I don't think it's necessary for landing when you've a light aircraft, and it reduces your maneuverability. Of course, if you don't use trim, it lowers the inconfort... but you shall use trim instead :)

*do LCTRL+A so autopilot standby engaged so trim is neutral

This command doesn't guarantee you a neutral trim. It sets the trim to the correct position for the current flight conditions.

Sure, at high speed before beginning approach, you've most chances it will come with a trim neutral result. But it's difficult to know for sure (unless using RCTRL+Enter, kinda "cheating").

When the aircraft feels WoW (main LG), then the trim will be set to "Ground/TakeOff/Neutral" position. This is sure certainty.

*always align plane to airstrip a long way out

*landing gear down at 230knots or less

:thumbup:

*touchdown between 150>160knots

Nope. :no_sad:

It may be more, it may be less. Depending on your aircraft's weight at the time. Speed doesn't really matter: if AoA is OK (and weight is within limits) then you're good.

*do not apply brakes until 100knots or less and do so in a pulse manner...apply for 1second, off for 1 second

:thumbup:

*just before touchdown increase power slightly to float the plane slightly so soft landing

:huh: raising the nose should be enough. On the contrary, if you make your approach with the correct AoA, you may need to slightly decrease thrust to ensure touchdown.

Do you fly your approach at 14° AoA?

*upon touchdown keep front wheel of the ground for as long as possible so wings act as huge airbrake

*if needed use airbrakes too for extra braking as well upon touchdown, if landing on short runway also use landing chute

:thumbup:

*turn on nose wheel steering under 50knots

In fact the NWS should be enabled when still inflight (the first version of Razbam's manual got that wrong, and so did many "tutorials" or guides based upon it.

NSW automatically disengages.

Remember I do not want any trim upon landing and prefer to balance throttle power with pitch changes of joystick...

(...)

As stated before this method works well for me...I do not think it is the correct way or anything like that but I get the result I want of a smooth landing and no beep beep beep and I have been doing this for a long time.

This is definitely where we differ.

I explained why above.

But if it suits you, feel free! It's your aircraft after all :)

Try this method and maybe you may like it...Gary

I'm sorry, Gary, I don't need to try it to know I won't like it:

1/ performing an approach without using trim is unconfortable for me, and for most pilots I know both in sim and in reality (and comparatively, it's alse less safe because it increases pilot's workload).

2/ it's not how it's done IRL; I prefer simulating the IRL way of doing things, usually it works (mostly it works better than imaginative alternative ways ;))

++

Az'

Reply to Azrayen

Maybe that's when you do that, that the amber Master Caution comes On ;)

BTW you're not "enabling" the limiter (it's always enabled); you're setting it to the "heavy load" setting. I don't think it's necessary for landing when you've a light aircraft, and it reduces your maneuverability. Of course, if you don't use trim, it lowers the inconfort... but you shall use trim instead :)

G. Yes I understand what you say; but 'I like doing it the harder way' without trim upon landing. The heavy load setting means joystick is less reactive, sensitive, twitchy which helps if you land without set trim and land by balancing joystick and throttle settings. Is my choice.

:huh: raising the nose should be enough. On the contrary, if you make your approach with the correct AoA, you may need to slightly decrease thrust to ensure touchdown.

Do you fly your approach at 14° AoA?

G. Yes 14 degrees I use. When I say I increase thrust I do this when plane rear wheels would be just metres from the ground...It increases lift on underside of wing a tiny bit to cushion wheels touching down on airstrip but not enough to have plane take off again. Cushioning would be a good word to use for this action. Throttle increase is slight and requires a delicate change.

In fact the NWS should be enabled when still inflight (the first version of Razbam's manual got that wrong, and so did many "tutorials" or guides based upon it.

NSW automatically disengages.

G. Not true, when mission loads and plane is already airborne the NWS is not engaged. If you select in air no blue light comes on and nor will it come on upon touchdown. Nobody would want it on upon touchdown as it is not intended (tooo sensitive with landing speeds) for use at such speed. Use rudder initially and enable NWS at 50knots or less. However if you take off after landing blue light will go out and come on again next landing so will need to be disabled prior to take off for next landing.

G. Am able to consistently land the plane without running out of runway, bouncing off the runway, being off the runway or crash so for me my way of doing things works. Someone using my method without practice will probably get into trouble as it is harder. But I like doing it because it is harder. Something of a challenge and improves motor skill.

When I read this post and another post it is clear that users do not have a set in cement way of landing...is variation.

Thx for your input Azrayen...Gary

Not true, when mission loads and plane is already airborne the NWS is not engaged. If you select in air no blue light comes on and nor will it come on upon touchdown. Nobody would want it on upon touchdown as it is not intended (tooo sensitive with landing speeds) for use at such speed. Use rudder initially and enable NWS at 50knots or less. However if you take off after landing blue light will go out and come on again next landing so will need to be disabled prior to take off for next landing.

NWS is to be on as soon as you start taxiing and to be switched off when you shutdown the aircraft. The NWS have a dynamic range that adapt to you current speed up to 40kts where it disengage automatically so you can't use it at high speed. you are free to disable it but it's not standard procedure.

'I like doing it the harder way' (...) Is my choice.

Sure, that's what I said "feel free to diverge from that if you feel better". :)

I just wanted to be sure you understood that "the harder way" is farther from reality rather than closer :)

Not true, when mission loads and plane is already airborne the NWS is not engaged.

Hum, you made me re-check, and you're right, my bad, I spoke too quickly. :doh:

The NWS should "arm" when lowering the L/G but indeed the pilot needs to use the NWS button during the landing run to actually engage it. :thumbup:

It's normal that " If you select in air no blue light comes on" because in the air the button has a differenty function (IFF interrogate).

However if you take off after landing blue light will go out and come on again next landing so will need to be disabled prior to take off for next landing.

Indeed. There is something to improve in DCS, there (the NWS de-activation should be automatic). That's what made me make the mistake earlier.:book::ermm:

When I read this post and another post it is clear that users do not have a set in cement way of landing...is variation.

Well, what I try to promote is the "closer to reality" way, as I feel it's the main purpose of the sim. Now, if anyone knowingly (<= that's the important word) departs from it, so be it, it's anyone's choice. :)

Thx for your input Azrayen...Gary

You're welcome. Thanks to you to for pointing my mistake on the NWS :thumbup:

++

Az'

Azrayen you are right..... the LAlt+A does engage autopilot standby which also prevents the Master Caution Light and accompanying beep beep but does not reset trim.

I do not think the Mirage has any trim reset in real world plane nor DCS version. If I look hard over either my left or right shoulder in plane to leading edge control surfaces after manually adjusting trim (+,-) LAlt+A makes no change on those leading edge surfaces back to a neutral position...nor does anything else (that I know of).

I just adjust those leading edge surfaces manually using trim adjustment and looking out of the window. Rather primitive but gives a sure result.

If I use either keyboard or joystick binding for trim those leading edge slats move down or up accordingly so seems like they are trim related.

Do u know of an indicator in cockpit showing the +,- travel of those trim surfaces on leading edge?

thx...gary

Azrayen you are right..... the LAlt+A does engage autopilot standby which also prevents the Master Caution Light and accompanying beep beep but does not reset trim.

 

I do not think the Mirage has any trim reset in real world plane nor DCS version. If I look hard over either my left or right shoulder in plane to leading edge control surfaces after manually adjusting trim (+,-) LAlt+A makes no change on those leading edge surfaces back to a neutral position...nor does anything else (that I know of).

 

I just adjust those leading edge surfaces manually using trim adjustment and looking out of the window. Rather primitive but gives a sure result.

 

Do u know of an indicator in cockpit showing the +,- travel of those trim surfaces on leading edge?

 

thx...gary

If you are talking about the leading edge slats they are not related to trim AFAIK.

Azrayen you are right..... the LAlt+A does engage autopilot standby which also prevents the Master Caution Light and accompanying beep beep but does not reset trim.

Yes, this is where there is (I think) lots of misunderstanding.

AutoPilot StandBy (LAlt+A) is not a "trim reset to neutral" command.

It is a command which:

- puts the AP in StandBy if it was engaged

- and as a consequence, puts the trim to the correct position to maintain current flight conditions.

The trick is that "correct position to maintain (...)" + main wheels on the ground (WoW sensor) equals to trim neutral. ;)

++

Az'

PS: As the aircraft is unstable, the flight control surfaces positions may seem "unlogical"; I wouldn't do a classic interpretation of them. :unsure:

That's part of the "magic" of the "aircraft unstable + FBW" formula :)