Hope add "Push back" function on carrier

+1

+1 --- please, please, please add pushback

+1 would love a pushback feature - the AI seem to have one, but not for the player.

Yeah, something like this, including setting the chocks.

+1

+1

We need SdKfz 2 Kettenkrad to WW2 era for Germans!

+1

+1 Absolutely necessary to give even more life to this great module. And more to populate the different air fields.

these places are hopelessly empty of bustling life.

These are desperately short of busy ground personnel: mechanics, technicians etc ... Allow the soldiers to walk so that we can simulate a patrol! Thank you in advance for your understanding

I've seen how simple it is in MSFS2020 to do this. One keybind starts pushback, press again to stop it, super simple. A great bonus if they manage to add a person on a cart that can come up and push you back too, but unneeded.

Better to have it animated. It is after all fairly simple design how one can get very nicely working ground crew and actions by having a ground crew templates for each aircraft (most common aircrafts, at least all flyable) that includes all the proper vehicles and personnel. And all are animated to move and work relative to the invisible pattern that is then positioned on the aircraft location once it stops.

Just as example that a main red area is positioned automatically relative to aircraft position and attitude on ground. All vehicles (blue ones) are moved from the hangars and near by locations to pre-defined positions relative to that red area.

All personnel (yellow dots) are animated to move from vehicles to predefined positions and as well move in pre-defined paths around the aircraft, like moving under aircraft, between vehicles and airplane etc.

All the red squares inside the main red area are predefined positions for the ground crew and so on that will move and assist the player to start engines, perform the checks etc etc.

This way player can land the aircraft, taxi to the parking slot and is required to get the aircraft center axis (big red cross) inside the green service areas. Once the aircraft is positioned properly inside the service area, all personnel and vehicles would be moved relative to the red area around the vehicle and play the corresponding animations for rearming, refueling and repairing.

And if aircraft is left somewhere else, then a corresponding "truck" leaves a near by location and drives at the aircraft, attach itself to it and will drive it to free service area for a proper attitude relative to it (correct manner).

This would be same for all airfields, roadbases as well carriers and such. If a aircraft is too far or gone over a specific point in carrier or airfield, a vehicle comes by and will attach itself to it and move it to get it in position. And that is the challenging part really as how to program the aircraft moved properly in small distances or so, to get it positioned on wanted area (service, catapult etc).

Animators would have plenty of work to do all the templates and change the main animation elements match for each aircraft, but result would be amazing where ground crews, vehicles and all are moving around the aircrafts on airfields and carriers. And players wouldn't be required to try perfect parking for animations to match.

Better to have it animated. It is after all fairly simple design how one can get very nicely working ground crew and actions by having a ground crew templates for each aircraft (most common aircrafts, at least all flyable) that includes all the proper vehicles and personnel. And all are animated to move and work relative to the invisible pattern that is then positioned on the aircraft location once it stops.

 

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Just as example that a main red area is positioned automatically relative to aircraft position and attitude on ground. All vehicles (blue ones) are moved from the hangars and near by locations to pre-defined positions relative to that red area.

All personnel (yellow dots) are animated to move from vehicles to predefined positions and as well move in pre-defined paths around the aircraft, like moving under aircraft, between vehicles and airplane etc.

 

All the red squares inside the main red area are predefined positions for the ground crew and so on that will move and assist the player to start engines, perform the checks etc etc.

 

This way player can land the aircraft, taxi to the parking slot and is required to get the aircraft center axis (big red cross) inside the green service areas. Once the aircraft is positioned properly inside the service area, all personnel and vehicles would be moved relative to the red area around the vehicle and play the corresponding animations for rearming, refueling and repairing.

 

And if aircraft is left somewhere else, then a corresponding "truck" leaves a near by location and drives at the aircraft, attach itself to it and will drive it to free service area for a proper attitude relative to it (correct manner).

 

This would be same for all airfields, roadbases as well carriers and such. If a aircraft is too far or gone over a specific point in carrier or airfield, a vehicle comes by and will attach itself to it and move it to get it in position. And that is the challenging part really as how to program the aircraft moved properly in small distances or so, to get it positioned on wanted area (service, catapult etc).

 

Animators would have plenty of work to do all the templates and change the main animation elements match for each aircraft, but result would be amazing where ground crews, vehicles and all are moving around the aircrafts on airfields and carriers. And players wouldn't be required to try perfect parking for animations to match.

I like this suggestion. It's going to be a lot of work on ED's side, but it's going to be worth it in the long run and add another level of immersion. We could maybe even choose what kind of startup we want to do, an abbreviated one or a full one, where we go over systems checks with the crew chief, such as hydraulics, the scoop in the Hornet etc. And it's going to be a universal solution, as you say.

To make it a little more simple, a compromise could be made that the aircraft would need to be in a predefined position. And some automated position correction elements are already implemented (Supercarrier catapult position correction), so if the player can taxi more or less into the green service areas and contact the ground crew, there already exists a way to correct the aircraft's position and orientation, so that all the vehicles and personnel can be in easily predefined locations. The position correction can be done either automatically (less nice, but easier) or using a single vehicle to attach and correct it (still easier than developing relative positioning for everything).

Essentially, take what we already have for the catapult in the SC (animated crew that is in predefined positions) and apply it to the parking positions.

To make it a little more simple, a compromise could be made that the aircraft would need to be in a predefined position. And some automated position correction elements are already implemented (Supercarrier catapult position correction), so if the player can taxi more or less into the green service areas and contact the ground crew, there already exists a way to correct the aircraft's position and orientation, so that all the vehicles and personnel can be in easily predefined locations. The position correction can be done either automatically (less nice, but easier) or using a single vehicle to attach and correct it (still easier than developing relative positioning for everything).

 

Essentially, take what we already have for the catapult in the SC (animated crew that is in predefined positions) and apply it to the parking positions.

Exactly. The sample I gave is more just about rearming and refueling on ground where one doesn't need to be exactly in the same order as parked ones. But you have exactly the idea as well how it would be made to get eventually all roll "in-line".

In Carrier it is a critical thing because the space requirements, on roadbases it is more about just mission editing phase to place the service areas such way it makes sense. And on airfields it is more flexible because plenty of space but as well already known locations.

Various means would be used to move some aircrafts, like lighter ones you have people pushing you, on larger ones you have small tractor to move you.

Of course one realize right away that as there is animation and these personnel, it takes time to move around. But isn't that part of the simulator experience, that you learn to do things properly so time is not wasted to correct small sloppy actions, like arriving on catapult shuttle 30 cm to its right?

I could see two modes to exist, the long and accurate modeling, and then as well allow an "auto-align" that does the same thing as current repair function that raises aircraft slightly in air, repairs magically landing gear and all, and then drops on the ground as ready.

Be it then like a 15-45 second timer where aircraft is moved slowly in its proper place in tight carrier places if you have got yourself very near the correct position.

In carrier it would be nice to have a taxi ride from below hangars to elevator, from there to proper manner (don't know how they are really moved after that) for aircraft start-up and get it moving. As well park aircraft on deck and get transportation from there below the hangars.

The DCS experience would dramatically increase seeing more animations and personnel.

Think about landing on the airbase with proper ATC communications and guidance and then taxiing to parking slot/bunker and you don't have difficulties to find where you are suppose to go as you have ground crews and other personnel ready at the location. They would start giving signals to you so you know to whom you belong and get there. On bunker/shelter you would really have automated door opening/closing (at least it use to be in DCS so) and personnel inside with some equipment so you feel to "come back home".

On Carrier if you go past the shuttle, you would see personnel running under your aircraft to move you etc.

And in carrier as it is anyways so strictly coordinated and known procedure, you wouldn't need to press any button to "push back" or anything. As the ground crew very well knows that where you are suppose to be, you know same, and if connection goes bad, then everyone knows that it needs to be fixed. So pilot should just follow the commands and position gets automatically fixed in time.

This is something I think the paid Super Carrier should really be used, to develop all these functions to get it working everywhere eventually. On Super Carrier it is of course more than that (IMHO) like we should get the mission briefing/debriefing rooms, the mission planning rooms, communication center, ATC and such locations. So more about Combined Arms and on-the-fly-mission-designing than just animated deck crew moving and pushing.

+1

These are desperately short of busy ground personnel: mechanics, technicians etc ... Allow the soldiers to walk so that we can simulate a patrol! Thank you in advance for your understanding

If you give each soldier waypoints, they should walk.

+1 yes, we need deck push back

In carrier it would be nice to have a taxi ride from below hangars to elevator, from there to proper manner (don't know how they are really moved after that) for aircraft start-up and get it moving. As well park aircraft on deck and get transportation from there below the hangars.

From what I have read in the NATOPS manuals, carrier aircraft are only manned by naval aviators once the aircraft is spotted on deck. They do not man their aircraft on the hangar deck and ride the elevator from the cockpit, nor do they go the other way, but rather they dismount from the aircraft while it is on deck.

 

From what I have read in the NATOPS manuals, carrier aircraft are only manned by naval aviators once the aircraft is spotted on deck. They do not man their aircraft on the hangar deck and ride the elevator from the cockpit, nor do they go the other way, but rather they dismount from the aircraft while it is on deck.

This is true. No one rides the elevator without expressed permission. There's dangers associated with Elevator operations. And aircraft that land do not always take a ride to the hangar bay unless it is in need for major maintenance. Arming and very minor maintenance happen on the flight deck. And fitting an Elevator run in with a cycle is more complex than people think. Most aircraft swaps (good aircraft, bad aircraft) happen at night, after Flight Quarters have been secured. So the entire notion of working elevators is kind of useless! It really only makes sense if you turn DCS into a ship simulator.

The logic is already there for AI, which not only pushback but also puts wheel chocks, the covers on the intakes, engine nozzles, HUD, etc), deploys the ladder and the pilot appears next to it in the hangar, and so just need a menu option to turn it over to the ground crew for staging and then the animation for the tractor and perhaps pilot to climb down and then let you walk around like after you eject.

Ideally it would be after the de-arm area (animated weapon cart could drive up and then poof the weapons are gone), though ideally there could be an animation of some generic missiles or bombs coming down.

Similar for fueling ops. An animation for some grapes to come up and hook up hoses, etc. Would be much easier to have video cues to avoid "Hey, what are you doing?!"

All of this on the top ideal, with planes being taken below by ground crew for repairs (which need not be animated, though if it was some generic animation by ground crews would be a nice touch). Instancing would alleviate load concerns. I'd love to be able to have the option to walk to the ready room... or in the interests of brevity just select a menu option and poof in the ready room.

Hello,

Researched and found this topic.

A basic push, just a simple button to slowly move backward aircrafts, even without crew, would be great to park correctly.

Even on land in hangars.

18 hours ago, Anubis_94 said:

A basic push, just a simple button to slowly move backward aircrafts, even without crew, would be great to park correctly.

I'd be fine with F8 Ground crew > push back, but not a player control.

23 hours ago, draconus said:

I'd be fine with F8 Ground crew > push back, but not a player control.

Via radio menu you would have a hard time to stop the push with your gear close to the edge of the deck.

I don't see any reason to not bind to a button a move an aircraft backward, the basics of this functionality request don't have to be over-engineered, especially if we want to convince ED to add-it.

5 minutes ago, Anubis_94 said:

Via radio menu you would have a hard time to stop the push with your gear close to the edge of the deck.

I don't see any reason to not bind to a button a move an aircraft backward, the basics of this functionality request don't have to be over-engineered, especially if we want to convince ED to add-it.

There's a big difference between player controlled bind and ground crew request. One is not realistic at all.

Yeah ... speaking realism in a topic dealing with the control of a ground crew maneuver from the pilot seat ... as for the decision to power up the AC alone, maneuver alone on the deck to align on the cat', order alone the rearm, ... (you know, all these decisions that you totally take alone as a pilot ... ).

Joke aside, you want a radio menu? Here's one, for a later iteration :

F8 -> Call ground crew

<Gound crew in place>

<Use bind to adjust>

F8 ->  Release ground crew

But order a pushback via radio menu will be the best way to push AC above the deck with the input lag to stop the push.

24 minutes ago, Anubis_94 said:

Yeah ... speaking realism in a topic dealing with the control of a ground crew maneuver from the pilot seat ... as for the decision to power up the AC alone, maneuver alone on the deck to align on the cat', order alone the rearm, ... (you know, all these decisions that you totally take alone as a pilot ... ).

No joke, some of these things could be done better or removed but it's mostly the lack of ground crew taxi marshalling and startup assist that we miss on SC. At least the mashalling is planned. Also remember DCS pilot has free will so it's up to you to follow the orders. Usually the mission calls what you are about to do, so it's not entirely us "alone".

Imo the push back could be requested and then done automatically by the ground crew - I'm not sure how realistic is that, but I heard sometimes AC are pushed back with the pilot in cockpit. Or done only after leaving the AC. Or leave it to the Air Boss station.

+1, but not only for the carrier - ground ops too!
Simple pushback was a thing back in FS9 (maybe FS2000, but I'm not sure): one keybind to toggle pushback start/stop and two keybinds to steer left/right. That should be easy correction: relatively easy to do for ED, but most likely modules would have to get somehow updated to allow for such "external control" (for example, there may be a need for a module to disclose to DCS XY coordinates in the 3D model where the gear struts are, maybe also a way to control the nose wheel angle etc.).

Contrary to that, "automatic" pushback will be difficult to do and very bug-prone. Think of all airfields, all maps, all shapes and sizes of various aircraft and all the junk that may be tossed around the place (vehicles, barrels, GPUs, crates of bananas or whatever they toss around). Yeah, it would be awesome to see animated crews, tow trucks and so on, but I prefer to keep my feet on the ground

+1