Kiowa practice, use Huey or Balck Shark?

Problem with Gazelle still is that it does not react to inputs linear manner. It has own deadzones where it ignores input and then suddenly just react to them.

That is only with force feedback enabled though. We will look in to FFB with the new flight model.

We will look in to FFB with the new flight model.

That is only with force feedback enabled though. We will look in to FFB with the new flight model.

I have all different FFB settings either turned off (the general DCS FFB tick box) or zeroed (the Gazelle specific in Special tab and in Axis settings FFB tuning). Still have a very noticeable deadzone, killing the immersion quite a bit!

To this my controllers, PFT Lynx with Hall sensor upgrade, have NO deadzone nor center detent nor centering springs and almost frictionless (friction can be turned).

Don't know why some people don't seem to notice it, but maybe it has to do with hardware cyclic lengths/extensions?

Anyhow, I notice it and it is the general thing dragging the impression down on this otherwise nice module.

Looking forward to the upgraded FM whenever it will come.

Practice on anything, but it's what you practice.

Fly circuits correctly, hitting the right numbers. Proper controlled approaches.

I did this with the Huey and I was able to jump in to the Gazelle with no problem, even though the rotors turned the opposite way.

I'm now really enjoying the Gazelle. I can land and hover precisely with probably just a half hour transition period from huey to the gazelle.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Looking forward to the upgraded FM whenever it will come.

So do I. I am little hesitant for the Kiowa but enjoy from gazelle (what one can) but I hope the new method to make flight modeling is a lot improved 9ver previous ones.

To learn Kiowa it is difficult say what to use as all four helicopters are different. But when gazelle is so different from anything else, it is questioning what can be it used for?

That is only with force feedback enabled though.

Oh wow... Gazelle was the first DCS module I purchased a year ago, and I am only now just learning about this. Well I'm sure glad I stopped by the forums today :D

This one little toggle completely changes the feel of the Gazelle flight model. I might not even need curves anymore.

EDIT:

Yup, curves are completely unnecessary now. I think this is also the source of all of the complaints about the FM being too twitchy. Wish I knew before it was easily solved. The Gazelle is absolute pleasure to fly now.

That is only with force feedback enabled though. We will look in to FFB with the new flight model.

Not to sew negativity but I hope you guys get it right this time and eventually implement it properly in the Gazelle. I attempted flying the Huey earlier with my Warthog.. was constantly fighting the controls. A lighter stick might have helped some but the function of force trim provided by the MSFFB2 and Belsimtek/ED's implementation is night and day.

The function just makes everything feel more natural, not that I'm speaking from an actual pilots perspective.. I just know that my flying improved drastically in the Ka-50 and Huey after picking up my used MSFFB2.

It's a crying shame FFB joysticks haven't made a comeback yet, if nothing else but for helo sims. Bit of a must have on my part.. if force trim with FFB works in the Kiowa, I'll definitely be buying it. If you guys need one for development or testing purposes and can't find one anywhere, I might be willing to break my unused MSFFB2 out of the box and part with the used one that's still going strong. I do wonder if perhaps ED might be willing to help in its implementation.

The gazelle is the most fun chopper to fly in DCS. Never got surprised by her unless I am trying to fly in ways that I won't do IRL, which would also go against the basic principles of flying a sim. Unlike the other DCS RW, she requires some tweaks on the axis curves to be completely fine to fly but once you got that, it no better or worse than any other RW modules. (I hope we won't start another FM discussion here because I can't take it anymore). Casmo, an actual OH-58D pilot took the gazelle for a spin recently.

 

 

Flying the Huey or the Mi8, it's a bit like driving a pickup truck. It's stable and accessible to anyone. Flying the Gazelle is more like a fast sport car. You cannot fly her the same ways.

I mean he said the gaz decelerated way too fast, which is part of the many complaints about this module. Plus polychop are putting a brand new flight model into the OH-58D and using that info to rebuild the gaz right? So don't bust our balls with this stuff about the gaz being this glorious module.

I think we can be critical of the people we're giving lots of money to in order to ensure a better product, while all still being civil of course. Best wishes.

All you need to know about the DCS: Gazelle

According to Polychop, having a good handle on the gazelle is recommended before flying the 58D because both choppers are very twitchy...

All you need to know about the real Gazelle that is NOT very twitchy on the cyclic:

and should behave exactly like in this real life clip, with linear(!) control axis settings, without messing up saturation etc.

Nothing more needs to be said.

All you need to know about the DCS: Gazelle

 

Why don't you show us on the teddy bear where that nasty rude Gazelle hurt you ?

:megalol:

Hey Extranajero,

nice to meet you again! Isn't this a nice place to share knowledge and appreciation for realistic simulation?

What has this got to do with OP's original post? If you've still got issues, make a new post. Don't pollute other peoples threads with your rediculous crusade.

I think we can be critical of the people we're giving lots of money to in order to ensure a better product, while all still being civil of course. Best wishes.

+1 (of many)

-1, stick to the topic

What has this got to do with OP's original post? If you've still got issues, make a new post. Don't pollute other peoples threads with your rediculous crusade.

What it has to do?

One wants to practice helicopter flying before getting access to Kiowa Warrior.....

Asks that what to use to do so. Gazelle, Akula, Mi-8 or Huey as options.

1) KA-50 is out as it's special co-axial design and automations.

2) Mi-8 is out because it's size and automations.

3) Gazelle is out because it unrealistic and false controls/flight modeling.

4) Huey.... Wellll....

It is just either Huey or Mi-8 really. Both excellent for classical helicopter controls but still somewhat different.

Why discussions about Gazelle? Because it is one of the choices and reasoning why not to use is all about to do its controllability and behavior.

But it is explained, it is clear to everyone that Gazelle can't be judged in future from current situation as it gets new flight modeling and input modeling, so wait and judge it then after rework.

According to Polychop, having a good handle on the gazelle is recommended before flying the 58D because both choppers are very twitchy...

I find this statement the most concerning. I already stated and proved per video, the real Gazelle is far away from being twitchy. And guess what? The real OH-58 as well:

I see completely normal cyclic deflections and the expected behaviour.

Alec,

The vid you linked is an OH58A+ or C.

Very different drive train and rotor head.

(underslung vs semi-rigid).

That's not to say the control motions aren't similar. They're both hydraulic assist, but the A/C doesn't have a SAS system as does the D.

D is actually less "twitchy" than A/C, but far more agile.

Well i hope to don't see this behaviour on release then (axis input indicator vs maneuvering).

Edit: He throws her around with almost no input, the axis indicator isn't even able to display the fraction of input he used to roll this hard.

Alec,

The vid you linked is an OH58A+ or C.

Very different drive train and rotor head.

(underslung vs semi-rigid).

 

That's not to say the control motions aren't similar. They're both hydraulic assist, but the A/C doesn't have a SAS system as does the D.

 

D is actually less "twitchy" than A/C, but far more agile.

Yes they are very different.

The earlier OH-58s that use the same teetering rotor as the huey is more like a road vehicle that has soft suspension. There is more lag in the controller input due to the inertia in the airframe swinging below the rotors. no hydraulics will remove this.

The 4 rotors of the OH-58D offers better bite and control of not only the air but also better control of the air frame below it.

Apart from civilian airframes where the dual blade teetering rotor is cheap and preferable, you will never see this design again in professional/military choppers.... unless WW III occurs

Alright, so in short this means same, normal(!) cyclic deflections, but less lag in airframe reaction in the real OH-58D.

Between heuy and Ka50 I suggested to start with heuy because it has tail rotor as the Kiowa.But I believe the best to practice is the gazelle.

Between heuy and Ka50 I suggested to start with heuy because it has tail rotor as the Kiowa.But I believe the best to practice is the gazelle.

In his opinion, it "flies nothing like Gazelle" so based to that it wouldn't be wise to use Gazelle for training.

But what Alec posted few posts above about stream video, there is barely any cyclic or collective movements to throw the Kiowa around.

Example look at the take-off with it:

That is scary looking those inputs....

Though I don't like the gaz, I'm going to play devils advocate a minute here and ask a question: does the difference in cyclic / commercial flight stick travel distance largely affect what we're seeing in the gaz and alpha kiowa control indicators?

If you're using a regular flight stick, not one with an extension, couldn't you just adjust saturation and curvature to mimick the data that alec posted?

 

Well i hope to don't see this behaviour on release then (axis input indicator vs maneuvering).

 

Edit: He throws her around with almost no input, the axis indicator isn't even able to display the fraction of input he used to roll this hard.

As and aside, either the field of view is weird, or they haven't modeled the M4 correctly lol. It's so tiny. And the smokes are too big.

Look how much of the dash the M4 takes here, lots of angles to see that the M4 should be larger, and the smokes smaller than polychop has developed so far: