[NO BUG] AIM120:countermeasure spoofing returned to the old value, Why??

It is still basically chaff proof compared to a few month ago.

No it isnt. Its far from "basically chaff proof", not sure why you still think it is. Not that I really care at this point, but its definitely much easier to defeat, and overall quite easy to defeat if your not at like mach 1. Heres some more tacviews from a 2v2 comp I was in today:

https://streamable.com/okp4ea

Also, to add, the AMRAAM is now has the SARH chaff bug. If you chaff it, it will never reacquire, which is why I could turn in immediately after chaffing it. If i had notched without chaff, then turned in, it would have reacquired. This is also evident in the videos I posted earlier.

Significant reduction?

 

It is still basically chaff proof compared to a few month ago.

 

You are asking for a fantasy missile.

It really isn't its quite bad compared to a few months ago. And no i'm not I just want it returned to the previous value which from all indications I have is far more realistic. And its not just the amraam the russian, PD/monopulse seeker, missiles are also way to vulnerable as well.

There are about a 100+ ways to dodge an ER (or sometimes it might just dodge you by itself). There is probably about 1-2 ways to get that 120 off you, nuff said :P.

Really? Can you list even 10 of those ways to defeat an ER. Cuz as far as im aware there are only 5:

1. Launch Denial (e.g staying outside of the WEZ to begin with). Works against both ERs and AMRAAMs

2. Defeat the seeker, aka notching. Works against both

3. run it out of energy, aka SplitS before MAR. Works against both

4. Out maneuver it. Doesnt work against either unless they are slow

5. Increase miss distance outside proxy fuze range. Only missile it doesnt really work on is the AMRAAM.

All this missile talk here is just moot

Right. So before the patch when the AMRAAM wasnt how you wanted it is was totally not mute to complain to ED. But now when its easy to notch as you want its suddenly moot to discuss?

No need to be so bitter. ED has given the Amraam much love lately and still is.

Not so much can be said about Redfor missiles. They were practically untouched for years with many bugs and still no CFD modelling.

ER has significantly lower kinematic potential than it should, while current 120C punches well above its weight.

Take it and enjoy!

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Really? Can you list even 10 of those ways to defeat an ER. Cuz as far as im aware there are only 5:

1. Launch Denial (e.g staying outside of the WEZ to begin with). Works against both ERs and AMRAAMs

2. Defeat the seeker, aka notching. Works against both

3. run it out of energy, aka SplitS before MAR. Works against both

4. Out maneuver it. Doesnt work against either unless they are slow

5. Increase miss distance outside proxy fuze range. Only missile it doesnt really work on is the AMRAAM.

 

 

 

 

Right. So before the patch when the AMRAAM wasnt how you wanted it is was totally not mute to complain to ED. But now when its easy to notch as you want its suddenly moot to discuss?

Friend for number 5, now that AMRAAM has realistically slow maneuverability at high altitude, if you have a RWR that can determine strength do an orthogonal roll starting with the missile in the beam, as long as the missile was close enough, at some combination of high altitude and slow speed of the missile, it becomes 100% repeatable. At high altitude and low speed it’s AOA limit and small control surfaces just stop it from being able to put on any G quickly, and at around Mach 1 it can only sustain 10G for a second, speed bleed for it gets really bad when it has to pull max AOA.

As long as launcher was taking shots at 25nm away, it’s not so hard:)

120 99% of time wont go for chaff stop kidding yourself 120 was easy to notch and went for chaff before its update, Lets put it this way if 120C is that good why do pilots train in BFM? IRL wonder why that is?

Friend for number 5, now that AMRAAM has realistically slow maneuverability at high altitude, if you have a RWR that can determine strength do an orthogonal roll starting with the missile in the beam, as long as the missile was close enough, at some combination of high altitude and slow speed of the missile, it becomes 100% repeatable. At high altitude and low speed it’s AOA limit and small control surfaces just stop it from being able to put on any G quickly, and at around Mach 1 it can only sustain 10G for a second, speed bleed for it gets really bad when it has to pull max AOA.

 

 

 

As long as launcher was taking shots at 25nm away, it’s not so hard:)

120 from 25nm is still a very potent threat though especially if you don't expect it.

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120 99% of time wont go for chaff stop kidding yourself 120 was easy to notch and went for chaff before its update, Lets put it this way if 120C is that good why do pilots train in BFM? IRL wonder why that is?

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

To be fair that logic is flawed. Soldiers and special forces train in knife fighting but its not because they expect their rifles to break. Its just because not all fights start where you'd like them to.

 

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

Exactly. Nobody IRL is running around notching AMRAAMs at 250KIAS intentionally trying to force a merge.

Also, nobody here is bitter except you guys (understandably) over how ED has neglected the Flanker. Which they have, along with all of FC3. But you clearly show no interest in a rational discussion on missiles. You guys have given me zero reason to believe that IRL you defeat AMRAAMs (or ANY AAM, ERs included) by spamming chaff and being in the notch for 0.1 sec and immediately recommitting, other than the fact that it makes life easier for DCS Flanker pilots.

I could be whining all day about how ED has neglected the F-15C, all the missing features/functionality/capabilities that could easily be modeled in the FC3 environment. But I dont because I realize its pointless and not productive. The fact is DCS simply doesnt revolve around your favorite plane. As much as I wish ED did these changes to all the major missiles at once, they didnt, and thats their choice. We should be trying to bring all the missiles to the new standard, not dragging the ones that have been improved back down. Anyway, just my 2c.

IMO, I don't care which version of the game, people who are complaining about Aim-120 being overpowered just don't know how to defend a missile.

Stop whining and git gud.

IMO, I don't care which version of the game, people who are complaining about Aim-120 being overpowered just don't know how to defend a missile.

 

Stop whining and git gud.

120 99% of time wont go for chaff stop kidding yourself 120 was easy to notch and went for chaff before its update, Lets put it this way if 120C is that good why do pilots train in BFM? IRL wonder why that is?

Pilots also do a lot of BVR training. Basic idea is that if you let the enemy get inside of MAR you have f'd up.

I have flown a lot of the "other" sim and the 120 and AA-12 are far more deadly there. You can't screw around the way you can here. None of us really know which is more correct, and the only people who do know are not allowed to say.

We can argue until the cows come home on how much "dice roll" a missile should or shouldn't have to chaff where at the end of the day the underlying issue is how radar missiles react to chaff in the first place that doesn't match reality. I think interactions with chaff should just be outright disabled Until ED is willing to dedicate the time to overhaul how radar missiles interact with it. Nighthawk has a good post on Hoggit that shares the same sentiment. An emphasis on kinematically defeating missiles should be the main approach, as mechanical physics leave a lot less to interpretation, until ED have the time to give this subject matter the time it deserves to be as realistic as possible and to stop with the band aid fixes that just create flame wars.

Lets also not generalise people based on what airframe they fly. Flanker has been my main bird since the beginning of my time in DCS and I was 100% on board with missiles reacting less to chaff and making defeating missiles kinematically the most viable option in all but the most dire of straits.

Exactly. Nobody IRL is running around notching AMRAAMs at 250KIAS intentionally trying to force a merge.

 

 

Also, nobody here is bitter except you guys (understandably) over how ED has neglected the Flanker. Which they have, along with all of FC3. But you clearly show no interest in a rational discussion on missiles. You guys have given me zero reason to believe that IRL you defeat AMRAAMs (or ANY AAM, ERs included) by spamming chaff and being in the notch for 0.1 sec and immediately recommitting, other than the fact that it makes life easier for DCS Flanker pilots.

 

 

I could be whining all day about how ED has neglected the F-15C, all the missing features/functionality/capabilities that could easily be modeled in the FC3 environment. But I dont because I realize its pointless and not productive. The fact is DCS simply doesnt revolve around your favorite plane. As much as I wish ED did these changes to all the major missiles at once, they didnt, and thats their choice. We should be trying to bring all the missiles to the new standard, not dragging the ones that have been improved back down. Anyway, just my 2c.

Being bitter helps no one indeed.

At the same time people need to speak up and make bug reports.

Its the only way things can get better.

...But you clearly show no interest in a rational discussion on missiles. ...

~15 years we trying. (search forum)

...and we get this in every discussion (you are just new/another one):

I could be whining all day about...

...

Really?...Cuz as far as im aware there are only 5: ...

You are still green.

@Dundun. Who's we? You mean ED, surely?

Let's look at the facts, ED made a well informed decision to fix the 120.

You are here crying and blaming Flanker pilots for that? You serious? Sounds pretty bitter and stupid thing to do, doesn't it.

Surely thats what it looks like. So you got two options:

Let it go and enjoy what is still the best missile in DCS hands down.

OR,

You have some new data to contribute? Go post on Missile Discussion thread instead of picking fights.

That's my 2c back to you.

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Aim-120 is about as effective as aim-7. Hopefully it gets restored!

...So you got two options:

 

...

Just ignore... he think he found hot water and doing self promotion as new rising YT star. He talking about things many years old, nothing changed by years... he just want attention even he have no clue what he talking.

Let him and such ppl to stay in their DCS World. We have our standards. Higher one. Flanker is not just ET, Flanker is not just low in mountains, Flanker is not only EOS, Flanker is not only target for all F variants and Falnker is not only FC3 level (he is downgraded more than they can imagine). Even of that we (as Flankers) still beat them so badly trough years and they still crying. Also skills are not on GR and GS youtube channels - for me as experienced DCS fighter pilot, always when i watch (never to the end) some of their YT videos is something like i watch Teletubies after Sparta. Let them go...

But yes BS, show him your "Notch to Merge" (Crank/Dive) video recorded in FC 1.12 he will pass out when he sees that he is late aprox 15 years and as bonus: Nothing is changed. :D

:megalol:

The 120 is one of the most deadly medium range missiles in the world and in DCS it’s pure trash.

The 120 is one of the most deadly medium range missiles in the world and in DCS it’s pure trash.

All missiles are trash, except Phoenix that is on steroids.

...and as expected youve given no facts, just insults. I tried to give you the chance but no, you just cant come up with any. And no Im not generalizing Flanker pilots, sorry if I came off like that. I myself like the Flanker (as anyone who has flown with me extensively would know). I also however like realisim, and it seems ED is departing from that.

The 120 is one of the most deadly medium range missiles in the world and in DCS it’s pure trash.

120 in DCS is a WIN button. It has instant scan like a fisheye camera - which is a gamification and hopefully should be changed in the future with scan patterns introduction. And it has agility of AIM-9X.

ED explicitly stated that they reworked part of the simulation and new counter-CCM behavior of AMRAAM is a bug resulting that they didn't rework the other part accordingly. The AMRAAM behavior before-rework and after-rollback is intentional and, according to ED, realistic. And you should know that when working with real data, they take best possible numbers for blue and worse possible for red.

My salt truck fell over with laughter.

All missiles are trash, except Phoenix that is on steroids.

People still think the AIM-54 is OP? :megalol: