Multi-crew for one huey implemented or not? - Page 26 - ED Forums
 


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Old 07-16-2018, 01:10 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Richman View Post
It's nice to read, that the multiplayer multicrew for the Huey isn't dead. I do have some other modules for DCS, so it's not going to get boring, but multicrew for the Huey would be awesome. Maybe I'll try it even first in the Gazelle.

But one thing I don't get: Why is it a problem making the whole cockpit accessible for both crew? If my copilot switches off the engine while on an attack run, he's an idiot (or a mean flight instructor ;-P).

I don't own the L-39. It has two cockpit and I guess - while most of the cockpit controls are separate for each cockpit - the flight controls aren't, right? So when this works apparently for the flight controls, why doesn't it for ordinary cockpit controls?
I don't see an issue with this? But maybe one of you could enlighten me.
Thanks!
An example. Both pilots have a HOTAS Warthog throttle. Using a 3-way switch, say the EAC for the "Master Arm switch". Now the ON/off/ON switch has two constant ON positions. You need to keep them synced, or you have one switch in the up the other in the off or down position at the same time (that isn't even considering network sync issues in the first place).

Now with "Master Arm" that isn't much trouble as you can switch between the safe and off position with no impact on the weapons, but the overhead panel Main generator will be fun if accidentally "reset" and set to "off" midflight... and this is just switches, and just for the Huey.

The more complex the module is, the more important is keeping switches and systems in sync, without accidentally triggering something.
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:39 PM   #252
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Of course it's not possible to sync two different hardware switches in two different real world locations with each other. You can work around it though, so that your hardware switch will not affect the virtual switch until you have put it in the same position as the virtual switch. It's going to be a little more inconvenient, yes, but there is really no way around it, short of both pilots having controllers with server motors that move the switches of the other player's controller.

An alternative is to only interact with the virtual cockpit with the mouse or a hand controller in VR. Then it just becomes a question of whose hand will take precedence if both players try to manipulate the same switch at once.

It's definitely doable, to make a cockpit with shared controls. Anyone saying otherwise is just making up lame excuses because it's harder to do than two separate cockpits or set of controls.
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:52 PM   #253
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Of course it's not possible to sync two different hardware switches in two different real world locations with each other. You can work around it though, so that your hardware switch will not affect the virtual switch until you have put it in the same position as the virtual switch. It's going to be a little more inconvenient, yes, but there is really no way around it, short of both pilots having controllers with server motors that move the switches of the other player's controller.

An alternative is to only interact with the virtual cockpit with the mouse or a hand controller in VR. Then it just becomes a question of whose hand will take precedence if both players try to manipulate the same switch at once.

It's definitely doable, to make a cockpit with shared controls. Anyone saying otherwise is just making up lame excuses because it's harder to do than two separate cockpits or set of controls.
Nobody says it is not doable. It just is more complicated than in seperate cockpits.

As for the "lame excuses" feel free to show us how quickly and easy you can do this.

Oh, and just not to forget, the platform you program for is changing from time to time... 1.5 to 2.0, 2.0 to 2.2, 2.2 to 2.5 all with minor and major changes and the one or other bug...
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:20 PM   #254
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Oh, I'm sorry if I stepped on a sore toe. My apologies.

As for the "show us how quickly I can do it myself", that's just asinine. I don't have insight or knowledge about the specific code of DCS. I don't work for DCS, and I'm not a programmer. Of course I couldn't do it quicker than someone working for ED. I do, however, possess a sense of logic and reasoning, and I have a basic understanding of programming.

But if you are not saying that it's not doable, then the statement above about lame excuses does not apply to you, logically.

Then again, if you are saying that you won't do it because it's too hard, that's a lame excuse.

I have complete sympathy for it being hard and taking time. And I am grateful for the effort being put into the module.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:35 PM   #255
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multicrew would be good for training, having a live instructor that can take control or correct the student when they make a mistake, not like the automated "instructor" we now have that does not correct a mistake and then falls asleep.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:51 PM   #256
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Then again, if you are saying that you won't do it because it's too hard, that's a lame excuse.

I have complete sympathy for it being hard and taking time. And I am grateful for the effort being put into the module.
That was what Belsimtek said. "It isn't that easy", " they want to do it right", "which takes time".

We all, would love to have this implemented sooner than later, but it is not a simple addition of some lines of code and a handful of key binds.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:16 PM   #257
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It seems that conflicting commands between the pilot and co-pilot is a problem. In RL the pilot in command PIC decides who is flying the aircraft. So what about a toggle command line (key bind) that lets the PIC or instructor decide who is in control of the aircraft, then there will be no conflicts.

As in "I have the plane". It could be set in preflight as to who will be the PIC.

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Old 07-19-2018, 06:23 PM   #258
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Quote:
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...
And if you don't have your controls in the exact same configuration when the switch is made? What do you think will happen? In an emergency were no time exist to make sure your controls are in the same position? And as already been mentioned, network lag? How will it affects the flying?
It is much more than the controls to handle before you reach a functional and pleasant experience for both pilots.
I'm pretty sceptical they will ever make it. Not due to lack of effort and dedication, MAYBE due to economical implications, but most certainly due to overwhelming synchronization difficulties not in the hands of ED to solve, i.e. network, hardware, controllers...
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:58 PM   #259
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The controls are synchronized, when the PIC moves a switch the switch on the co-pilot aircraft also moves. As I said before, only one person is in control at a time.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:11 PM   #260
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The controls are synchronized, when the PIC moves a switch the switch on the co-pilot aircraft also moves. As I said before, only one person is in control at a time.
The switch maybe, but not the axis.
So you need to ensure a smooth transition of the axis' from the cyclic and collective position of pilot 1 to worst case, a totally different position of pilot 2.
I remember the first beta tests with the L-39C and the Gazelle... Let's say it isn't that simple.
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