DCS World Support Linux

I don't find the lack of market in Linux gaming a reason not to pursue it. A shift to Vulkan would give DCS World this ability with little effort and open a pathway for consoles support. Windows would die a fast death if more game developers supported Linux as a massive amount of people are waiting for this.

How to put it another way... most cars run on petrol, this doesn't mean that petrol cars are the future; It is highly likely they will be electric. But people wont adopt this until it is proven and the market won't be there until companies are sure it will sell. So we need early adopters e.g. Tesla, which sold its cars very quickly but at the same time had to take many setbacks as early adopters. Another example would be BitCoin and how it basically did nothing until it boomed almost overnight. That is Linux Gaming.

... Maybe ED can even find others ways to transition, like selling Linux as a module so it is funded.

A shift to Vulkan would give DCS World this ability with little effort and open a pathway for consoles support.

That's just not true. graphics is only one part, there is much more to it than that.

Vulkan would be a first step, but that's about it.

Also, with custom engines it's a major pain in the a**, since you have to take into account many of the things that previously the driver was doing for you.

(Same for DX12 btw)

3rd party engines like Unreal engine can do that work for you, but iirc ED use a custom engine.

I don't find the lack of market in Linux gaming a reason not to pursue it.

That’s exactly the reason not to pursue it. You guys are all backwards in your reasoning. :doh:

Windows would die a fast death if more game developers supported Linux as a massive amount of people are waiting for this.

No they aren’t. Only half a percent of gamers use Linux. That’s probably less than the margin of accuracy on the Steam Survey. That doesn’t qualify as “massive amount of people“

Massive amounts of people more likely think Linux is a character in the Peanuts cartoon strip. :doh:

@Berniyh and McMicha

Please keep us upted on your progress or lack thereof. I am very interested to see the outcome of this. Btw, one issue that bugs me is the support for DCS's modding environment, i.e. will a move to linux mean a headache for the usual mods like SRS, OVGME and the like. Kinda annoying if one gets DCS working properly on linux but all those nifty little tools surrounding it won't work properly.

@SharpeXB Thanks for misrepresenting me :/

I agree with you that Linux has a small user base and I never said it didn't.

I made the case for game developers like ED to be early adopters of Linux as a gaming platform so that people can leave Windows. This is not unlike BitCoin and Tesla, both of which were not viable at time of conception but were catering for a future market. BitCoin was worthless as a currency until this very year and Tesla runs at a loss because the car market will favor electric in the near future. Do you understand what I am saying here?

I also made it clear that this was something not entirely viable but an act of good faith and forward thinking, hence it could be sold as a module. That way ED could fund development, help grow Linux and increase their player base --hopefully without deficit.

I made the case for game developers like ED to be early adopters of Linux as a gaming platform so that people can leave Windows.

Why should ED waste their time and money on this? There’s no market for that compatibility and ED already faces a very long development time for its products. Any effort spent towards some sort of misplaced anti Windows crusade is a complete waste of time and resources.

So you want ED to spend loads of extra money developing a game for a platform almost nobody uses. Seems like a great idea. And while the "I'll just have to recompile the kernel"-Linux nerds apparently like to think so, people are not just sticking with windows because their favorite application or game isn't available for linux yet.

OT:

BitCoin was worthless as a currency until this very year

For the record, long transaction times combinedwith large fluctuations in exhange rate mean that Bitcoin IS worthless as a currency. As an investment object it might be feasible (for those who prefer high risk investments), but not for actual daily use. If the 1$ BTC equivalent you paid for a cup of coffee is only worth 95¢ by the time the seller receives it, it serves no use as a practical currency.

I'd REALLY like to see the dedicated server run on Linux. This would really open up new possibilities.

DCS World runs on DirectX11 and at some stage they will begin development on DCS World 3. Switching to Vulkan at this stage would improve performance and make cross compatibility that much easier, maybe even a console variant like Flaming Cliffs 4 or something.

Also "anti windows crusade" is not misplaced, the bloatware, tracking, constant updating, security issues etc are all well documented and its users deserve better.

Sure Linux has issues (software support and some hardware) there is no denying that, but at least it gives a damn about the people who use it, and it is only getting better. When you use Windows you are the product.

... constant updating ...

Well I certainly wouldn’t want an OS that ever gets updates. Linux doesn’t have updates? Please... :doh:

Linux doesn’t need security because nobody would bother making a virus to attack 1% of the world’s computers that aren’t doing anything important anyways. :music_whistling:

Why worry about ED doing anything. Apparently Steam is going to magically make all games Windows compatable.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/08/valves-steam-play-uses-vulkan-to-bring-more-windows-games-to-linux/

Linux is the main OS for most of the worlds banking, business server systems, and its supercomputers. Also the fact that Android is also Linux means that it likely outpaces Windows in objective users. Lastly I never said Linux didn't update... Linux actually updates more often than Windows the difference is it is user driven unless specified; However Windows has forced updates with no easy option to disable, making it very fun during conference presentations, low bandwidth internet connections or when tethered to limited data connections like mobile phones.

Linux is the main OS for most of the worlds banking, business server systems, and its supercomputers. Also the fact that Android is also Linux means that it likely outpaces Windows in objective users. Lastly I never said Linux didn't update... Linux actually updates more often than Windows the difference is it is user driven unless specified; However Windows has forced updates with no easy option to disable, making it very fun during conference presentations, low bandwidth internet connections or when tethered to limited data connections like mobile phones.

Although technically they are Linux it is somewhat misleading trying to dump in all the free distros of Linux (which is what is being talked about here) with all the commercial enterprise versions that are controlled and updated by corporations and as such have to be supported and given updates etc to be viable.

Unfortunately the various free distros of Linux are not viable having used them for about 20 years, I don't blame Eagle Dynamics if they state they will not be supporting it.

BTW we can all nit pick faults with any OS we have a personal agenda against if you like!

Unfortunately the various free distros of Linux are not viable having used them for about 20 years, I don't blame Eagle Dynamics if they state they will not be supporting it.!

What is not viable with Linux? I have used both Windows and Linux dual boot for the past 5 years and I have only ever had GPU support issues with Linux which was a minor solvable annoyance. Windows though comes with a host of issues as I have already stated, but here is another reason... try removing Internet Explorer/ Edge on Windows or any other number of its data collecting apps :cry: you can't that's because your not in control of your OS.

I type this right now on my 8700k game rig running MINT, for a simple reason, it works by far better and more reliable for my daily needs than this stupid 10 did for the last few weeks and months, 1803 especially.

I am no fan of non working hardware, nobody is, but Linux of 2018 is not the Linux we had 2001, or 2011, things advanced a lot.

Gaming on Linux is a dream of mine, I'd be happy if ED made the ded. SRV Linux compatible. The Client may or may not follow, as I see some hurdles beyond Vulkan like our Gear ( Hotas, TiR, MFD, Helios, VR...most of those are still stepchildren in Linux.

I love them all, each one for it's good things but I also hate them all for what they cannot do for years, from Mac to Linux or Windows.

Win10 wasn't that bad but somehow they screwed up the show imho. This could be handled a lot smoother. Win7 was easier to maintain over the years is my personal opinion.

Linux is the main OS for most of the worlds banking, business server systems, and its supercomputers.

Whatever. That’s all irrelevant to the topic here. Among the personal computer owners who could run DCS the market share is .59%

Linux doesn’t need security because nobody would bother making a virus to attack 1% of the world’s computers that aren’t doing anything important anyways. :music_whistling:

I was responding to your point that Linux doesn't need security which is untrue. But I understand your point - basically people don't write viruses for Linux because it has a low casual user base. Agreed.

I was responding to your point that Linux doesn't need security which is untrue. But I understand your point - basically people don't write viruses for Linux because it has a low casual user base. Agreed.

The vast majority of the internet runs on Linux... you people have NO idea what you're talking about and it's obvious you don't work in the I.T. industry.

The vast majority of the internet runs on Linux... you people have NO idea what you're talking about and it's obvious you don't work in the I.T. industry.

Right we aren’t all IT people. We’re gamers. The vast majority of gamers use Windows.

Right we aren’t all IT people. We’re gamers. The vast majority of gamers use Windows.

If DCS is added to an additional OS I don't see the issue, it's not going to hurt anyone just add more people to the game. What's the big deal?

If DCS is added to an additional OS I don't see the issue, it's not going to hurt anyone just add more people to the game. What's the big deal?

Because only .82% of this demographic runs Linux. The cost to have it on that OS wouldn’t be worthwhile. There are more important things for ED to focus on.

Apparently there’s a way Steam can make Windows games run on Linux anyways

https://steamcommunity.com/games/221410/announcements/detail/1696055855739350561

So if Steam wants to do this on their dime that’s fine as long as it didn’t cost ED anything. Any cost to add less than 1% of players couldn’t be feasible I’m sure.

Because only .82% of this demographic runs Linux.

Most of this demographic runs more Linux machines than Windows machines. Every new TV, every WiFi router, most phones, probably your washing machine,... it all runs Linux while in a typical household you have just one Windows machine.

What you were talking about are people who would actually play DCS on Linux however. And I bet as well there aren't much out there. Still, there is a point for DCS on Linux. I found this thread because I was searching for a way to let DCS run in a Docker image so I can easily host the new dedicated server. Putting a full Windows VM on one of my Linux servers is very cumbersome. Managing them even more so. But as things are looking at the moment, I might have to do it.

- Mathias

Most of this demographic runs more Linux machines than Windows machines. Every new TV, every WiFi router, most phones, probably your washing machine,... it all runs Linux while in a typical household you have just one Windows machine.

While this statement may be true...it is entirely irrelevant in the context of this conversation.

We're not talking about the TVs, WiFi routers, phones and washing machines in our homes we're talking about the operating system that is predominantly used for personal computing. They Break down as follows

Windows 94.93%

MAC OS 3.47%

Linux 0.86%

Other 0.74%

The predominante operating system relevant to the conversation is windows.

Yes, because big things in DCS take time, then its a good thing that we are talking about a linux version. Cause that would take some time to develop. Vulkan support being the first step in that direction :)

Since Windows 7 is nearing an end, I wanted to give DCS under Linux a try again.

I actually got it to start using Steam (I'm not using the stand-alone version), proton, protontricks and winetricks.

He're is what I did:

1. Install DCS using steam (obviously), first without any DLCs (to exclude activation problems)

2. Add vcrun2015 and corefonts:

protontricks 223750 vcrun2015
protontricks 223750 corefonts

3. Run it, it starts up in windowed mode.

No it's far from running perfectly, but at least it started. That's progression, I'd say. :)

There are rendering issues. MXAA doesn't work (gives you weird coloring) and even without, it looks very strange.

Performance was horrible, but I think it would be better if using DXVK.

After that, I added the Huey DLC to see if activation also works and indeed it does.

So there is hope for us Linux users that at some point it'll actually work. :thumbup:

(Obviously a proper port would be even better, but that'd be a long way to go. A very very long way.)

Edit: I tried with an updated version of radv and now DXVK/radv works. Visual glitches are gone as well.

Performance in high profile is ok, 35-40 fps with my RX Vega 64, but a bit worse than on Windows 7.

Arount 60 fps in Medium profile.

Joysticks work as well.

So … good progress. :)

Technically if you had two video cards you could use qemu-kvm with a Windows 10 virtual and use GPU passthrough for gaming and get damn near bare metal performance using the actual Nvidia drivers. This has already been done for other Windows games for those that wish to run Linux as their host OS. Performance has been reported to be better but that may be dependent on your hardware. I wouldn't do this without a minimum of 32GB of RAM and at least an 8 core CPU.

i.e.

Two monitors

Run a Radeon card on your Linux host OS - I believe Vulkan support is there now. Who cares, you are using Linux for work.

Run your Nvidia card under qemu-kvm on Windows 10, passthrough the IOMMU groups to the VM and install your native nvidia drivers, audio, USB peripherals, etc.

:thumbup: