L39 vs C101 or maybe the Hawk ?

Hello guys,

 

I'm pretty new to the forum and pretty new to DCS in general (1.5 permitted me to start simming here).

 

I already owned FC3 and the marvelous A-10C (and to be honest it's a joy to fly it even if i'm still learning the systems). I'm really enjoying them but I'd like to start looking at trainers as I find the trainer philosophy really intersting. :joystick:

 

So here come the questions, what would you choose over those two aircrafts ? And is the Hawk "good enough" I mean AFM and systems fidelity ? Or do you think It'd be intersting to wait for a sale to get both (still a student so counting the money..) ? :helpsmilie:

 

Thank's in advance, Have a nice day/night :)

 

-Helix

I own all three modules (L-39, Hawk, and C-101), and I only ever fly the L-39 since it is the most complete product at this time, including ED's Professional Flight Model. The other two are only half-baked at this time, and I have grounded them until they get at least an EFM update. Not to mention, if you're into multiplayer and would like to share the front/rear cockpit with another player, your only option is the L-39.

rrohde's points are all valid. The L-39 is definitely the most complete of the 3 although I don't personally own it. I own the C-101 and I think it has a lot of potential and appeal. Beautiful NATO style cockpit. Front/back seat switching works for single-player to a limited degree and is a work in progress. You'll eventually get 2 versions - the unarmed EB and the armed CC. And the CC, hopefully, will include anti-ship missiles!

 

Can't speak for the Hawk but it might be a little further along in the flight model than the C-101.

Edited December 4, 2015 by kontiuka

I see the point, I guess I'll buy the L-39 and wait for the C-101 to get his PFM update since It's really appealing.

 

Thank you a lot to both of you guys, I appreaciate much ! See you in the sky !

I only have the L-39, but I think all three of them are cool planes. :thumbup:

 

C-101:

 

If you're looking for something really useful in combat missions, I think the C-101CC (when its released) will be the most useful light attacker out of the three. Apparently the CC is getting an anti-ship missile, so that should be fun...

 

The C-101EB that is currently in-game is unarmed, so its more about learning formation flight, navigation, and maybe some basic dogfighting stuff.

 

Hawk:

The Hawk is an interesting, iconic plane. I don't really know much about it, but it looks nice! I've done some dogfighting against a human controlled one and it seems to handle well, even though its a standard flight model plane. I'm pretty sure the devs have an EFM planned for it though!

 

L-39:

 

The L-39 (the one I have/fly), it looks great and flies great! Highly recommend it. My only 'problem' with the L-39 is that it uses Russian navigation stuff, so it might have some problems in Nevada or on future maps...

 

I'm pretty excited for the L-39ZA to come out (the combat version with 4 hardpoints and a gun), The L-39 isn't the best plane for air to air combat yet though, R-3S is a really old missile...but its a good plane, dropping bombs accurately is quite a challenge! :thumbsup:

 

They're all interesting and seemingly fun to fly, again I only have the L-39 but I would recommend any of them. :pilotfly:

Enjoy the L-39! You won't regret it. :)

+1

I only have the L-39, but I think all three of them are cool planes. :thumbup:

 

My only 'problem' with the L-39 is that it uses Russian navigation stuff, so it might have some problems in Nevada or on future maps...

 

 

Why will it be a problem ? You mean metric units instead of imperial ones ?

 

Thank you a lot for your help !

 

 

And thank you very much rrohde, feeling like it'll be a joy to fly :pilotfly:

I meant that not every map is going to have RSBN or the Russian ADF stuff. :)

Oh, yes, of course, there isn't many russian stuff in the nevada :lol:

Edited December 4, 2015 by Helix_FR

I would say L-39 first choice, followed by C-101. L-39 most complete but C-101CC will have some good mission capability. Both are cut above the Hawk when it comes to cockpit texture/model

I would say L-39 first choice, followed by C-101. L-39 most complete but C-101CC will have some good mission capability. Both are cut above the Hawk when it comes to cockpit texture/model

 

 

Also it seems like the hawk isn't updated much and still have its SFM while the C-101 is about to get its EFM. Thank's for your answer, I bought the albatros and I'm waiting for sales to get my hands on the C-101 !

Also it seems like the hawk isn't updated much and still have its SFM while the C-101 is about to get its EFM. Thank's for your answer, I bought the albatros and I'm waiting for sales to get my hands on the C-101 !

I think it's the other way around. Hawk seems closer to EFM than the C-101. There have been demo videos of the Hawk EFM lately but there has been nothing shown about the C-101 EFM.

I saw a kind of "future update log" on Aviodev's facebook page that said the EFM will be released in the next update

I saw a kind of "future update log" on Aviodev's facebook page that said the EFM will be released in the next update

Are you referring to this ...

 

English version of the C-101EB cockpits will be available on next update. We keep working on next fronts, which is a lot of hard work:

- C-101CC Systems.

- AFM integration.

- Multicrew for C-101EB.

- C-101 Flight manual.

- English version for EB Cockpits. (already done)

- 3D model of next project.

With C-101EB/CC and multicrew we almost reach 1.000 arguments on the module!

 

I don't think that indicates the EFM will be ready in the next update.

Exactly, sorry I misred.. I thought I red EFM instead of AFM, but AFM still better than SFM tbh

Exactly, sorry I misred.. I thought I red EFM instead of AFM, but AFM still better than SFM tbh

By AFM, I'm sure he means EFM. Anyways, what I get from that facebook post is that there is still a lot to do on the flight model so it could be a while before we see something.

By AFM, I'm sure he means EFM. Anyways, what I get from that facebook post is that there is still a lot to do on the flight model so it could be a while before we see something.

 

Unfortunatly yes, I think this one has a great potential.. And it'll be intersting for a "realistic training course" because of the upcoming mirage F1 by the same dev

I myself was kinda looking into a personal transport, light attack/fighter myself. What I did was check ingame and loadout some NPC aircraft to see weapon loadouts and check the encyclopedia. This is what I gatherered (loosely).

 

 

Hawk T1

-Cheapest of the 3 @ $39.99, now with discount $27.99 no bonusses given or taken.

...even cheaper atm for $25 @ VEAO Site 'till 1st.

-1 version of the plane

-Dual seat incredibly unlikely 'would need a complete rewrite of the ASM'. Pilot will be able to switch seats, but just/mostly for show.

-EFM -> AFM planned for release at end of Januari 2016

-Good amount of view area, HUD is non-intrusive. Triangular shape gives a bit of a fighter feeling.

 

-Fastest (Mach 0.81 at s/l, 0.95 at height)

-Good flight range of 2500km ?

-Highest ceiling of 13.5km ?

-most 2050kg 'payload', empty to max takeoff

Weapons:

-2* A2A pylon

-2* A2G pylon. (Per pylon: ) 3* MK82 (not 1 or 2 atm :?) - 19* 2.75 rocketpod - CBU87 / clusterbomb

 

L-39za (L39c isn't in encyclopedia yet)

-Mid ranged priced @ 49.99 and $10 bonus. (Now with discounts actually most expensive, since it's only one that didn't get a discount)

-2 versions of the plane. C with a internal smoke generator and 2 smoke pods with loads of different colours and weaponcapable) and ZA as light attack version.

-Dual seat working for MP, able to create 'errors' which pilot needs to fix when in backseat etc.

-EFM -> PFM implemented (yeah, ED developed)

-Decent amount of view area - HUD is very obstructive, but is/will be removable in C version at least.

 

-short flight range - '1650km with nominal load'

-least 1250kg 'payload', empty to max weight

Weapons

-(L39c had 2 pylons which can handle small bombs, all kinds of colours smoke and R-3 A2A missiles), ZA has 2 more pylons, but nothing known about those 2...

-Not much known else from ingame.

 

C101EB/CC:

-Highest price of $59.99 (with discount atm: $41.99), No bonus given, but seem to apply (or they forgot to mention it doesn't)?

-2 versions of the plane. EB with 3 internal smoke generators (Yellow, white red) and a light attack version CC with 7 pylons and a 'better engine'.

-Dual seat planned (I haven't seen anything about what is possible from back-seat, flying seems logical, but don't know of any 'error-creating' stuff.)

-EFM release unknown, Soon ?

-Has an autopilot/navigation system

-Good view area - No HUD or anything in EB, looks a bit like Cessna with squared instrument panel in front.

 

-Decent speed: 770 km/h (417 knots, 480 mph) (Mach ~0.65 )

-Huge flightrange: 4000 km

-good service ceiling: 12.5 km

-mid 1800kg 'loadout' empty to max takeoff

weapons

-Outer pylons has AIM-9P, R.550 MagicII, 19 2.75 rocket ability ... even a br-500 bomb

-middle wing has a wide arange of bombs, rockets and a anti-ship missile.

-Inner wing pylons mostly same bombs and rockets.

-belly-pylon has 2 different gunpods

...Yeah, 7 pylons total, with quite a range of different weapons, able to have 6 rocket pods or 4 bombs with 2*A2A missiles.

 

 

In short:

 

None of these seem to come with a campaign or missions according to the store pages!

Hawk seems to be somewhat of an exception: 'Fully interactive, comprehensive training missions make learning to fly the Hawk easier.'

 

Hawk T1:

--- Quite soon flyable, but won't be much of a trainer without 2nd seat for MP.

--- 'Best' performing. Bit restricting armaments, but decent amount.

-Seems atm this it's more the performer/showoff/scout.

 

L-39C/ZA: Already flyable as a trainer in MP. Pilot 'Hood' might help extra in that area.

--- Performance and loadout wise least impressive.

-Seems atm the only actual trainer

 

C101-CC/EB: Don't know anything about when it will be flyable and what 2nd seat might do myself.

--- Good performance, especially range. Most likely a no-brainer for people who want to fly for hours on end.

--- Awesome weapon choices

-Seems atm the most diverse and capable due to all the different armament options.

 

 

Obviously, this is just from ingame encyclopedia and NPC plane loadout info (and some posts) from unfinished products. It's a shame there is so little known from the C101 team. Only videos on youtube that I find that might tell something are all in spanish.

 

Hope this info might help people a bit to choose.

Edited December 26, 2015 by CommDante

C101-CC/EB:[/b] Don't know anything about when it will be flyable and what 2nd seat might do myself.

--- Good performance, especially range. Most likely a no-brainer for people who want to fly for hours on end.

--- Awesome weapon choices

-Seems atm the most diverse and capable due to all the different armament options.

Rear seat is slowly coming to life in the C-101. By that, I mean the seat swapping is working, a handful of the instruments are working, you can open/close the rear canopy by itself via key command, and all the switches are "clickable" but non-functional.

 

Also, the C-101 team just came out with a draft flight manual that seems pretty good quality even though some of the English is a little off because they aren't native speakers.

 

EDIT: Also, the C-101 has a NATO/Western style cockpit which might appeal to some people over the L-39.

Edited December 26, 2015 by kontiuka

I guess one has to read that manual then to see what 'extra' stuff the instructor can do .. or if it's just a copy from the front seat to save the pilot from landing 90 degrees nose down. :P