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DCS 2.5 Ryzen 1700 @ 3.84ghz and VR


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Only ever owned Intel CPU's since the days of 386sx. Built my first AMD system last year... Ryzen 1700 @3.8ghz, 3466mhz ram. I'm having a hard emotional struggle living with 3.8ghz overclock. My old i5 2500k was clocked at 4.8ghz. I need ALL the FPS I can get because I run VR (HTC Vive doesn't have the benefit of ASW).

 

I'm really close to buying an 8700k and ditching the Ryzen. I'd keep the DDR4 which is rated at 4ghz and overclocks to 4.4 or 4.5 on Intel (stuck at 3566 on Ryzen).

 

Ryzen does well at screen res above 1080. Ryzen+ is coming eventually but rumour is that we'll be lucky to reach 4.3 or 4.4ghz with it.

 

I do 3d rendering so that was why I chose the Ryzen... however... My 3d rendering is ALL done on GPU via octane now so...

 

My GPU is a GTX 1070 overclocked +140 core and +500 Vram.

 

For flight sims and games I only run VR. Never play in 2d now.

 

Thoughts on VR + 8700k versus Ryzen?

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even with the 8700k and Rift I hardly ever get above 45fps in helicopter world down low.

 

Above the clouds and in the desert, there you see 90 fps.

 

 

So I would lower my expectations what a 8700k can pull in VR, they basically ALL suck, so do the GPUs for VR in DCS. There is no system yet to pull it off with ease and 90fps everywhere, far off imho.

 

I'd stick to the Ryzen, unless you got money to burn

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8700k will be superior to ryzen, amd is slow , cant Keep up with Intel ever.

 

 

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Always one or two steps ahead.

 

even with the 8700k and Rift I hardly ever get above 45fps in helicopter world down low.

 

Above the clouds and in the desert, there you see 90 fps.

 

 

So I would lower my expectations what a 8700k can pull in VR, they basically ALL suck, so do the GPUs for VR in DCS. There is no system yet to pull it off with ease and 90fps everywhere, far off imho.

 

I'd stick to the Ryzen, unless you got money to burn

 

I kind of suspected this when running the Mig 21 on DCS 1.5. FPS was so low even when I tried it with a 4.5ghz coffee lake i3.

 

Performance is better since 2.5 but I guess we really need Vulcan.

 

 

+1 BitMaster

 

+2 Bitmaster

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I guess it can't come fast enough!!!!

 

It's a crazy situation. We have all this new hardware and it's being crippled by ancient code and API. DX11 bottleneck. OpenGL bottleneck.

 

I have a GTX 1070...I run VR and there are very few games that make full use of the VR features of the GPU. Raw Data and Serious Sam support "VR-works" and I can max them out graphically with no fps drops.

 

I came very close to ditching my Ryzen and running back to Intel today but Bitmaster is quite right.. an 8700K won't boost performance enough to power an ancient API.

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Agreed. The problem isn't our hardware but the core DCS software. Unfortunately, without a major engine rewrite, I don't see a great deal of improvement in the future. Vulkan might help but it is still a bandaid approach.

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Always one or two steps ahead.

 

 

 

I kind of suspected this when running the Mig 21 on DCS 1.5. FPS was so low even when I tried it with a 4.5ghz coffee lake i3.

 

Performance is better since 2.5 but I guess we really need Vulcan.

 

 

 

 

+2 Bitmaster

Problem is not Ryzen...it's DCS being single threaded....Ryzen are optimized for intensive multitasking applications... anyway

I don't have VR (well I tried and liked it, but preferred to wait until new technologies) but with 2.5 my R7-1700x is doing pretty well, always around the 100fps (my monitor is 144hz).

I know that 8th gen i7 are much more faster in single thread (and probably but of a lesser margin also in multithreading - but you should compare it with 7th gen Intel CPUs) but for me (I had a i7 7700 on another machine) the performance difference (not talking about VR) was not existant...so only theoretical...

Will see with Vulkan and 2nd gen Ryzen...

 

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Problem is not Ryzen...it's DCS being single threaded....Ryzen are optimized for intensive multitasking applications... anyway

I don't have VR (well I tried and liked it, but preferred to wait until new technologies) but with 2.5 my R7-1700x is doing pretty well, always around the 100fps (my monitor is 144hz).

I know that 8th gen i7 are much more faster in single thread (and probably but of a lesser margin also in multithreading - but you should compare it with 7th gen Intel CPUs) but for me (I had a i7 7700 on another machine) the performance difference (not talking about VR) was not existant...so only theoretical...

Will see with Vulkan and 2nd gen Ryzen...

 

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Just read this...

 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-ryzen-2-release-date-specs-performance

 

Don't expect much boost from Ryzen 2 in April. Slightly higher clocks and 10% boost from 12nm.

 

DCS runs very well without VR on my 1700 but I ain't ever gonna go without HMD.

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Just read this...

 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-ryzen-2-release-date-specs-performance

 

Don't expect much boost from Ryzen 2 in April. Slightly higher clocks and 10% boost from 12nm.

 

DCS runs very well without VR on my 1700 but I ain't ever gonna go without HMD.

 

I have a 1600 (non X) "boostet" to 3.7GHZ. Together with a GTX 1080 it runs pretty decent with my Rift!

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I have a 1600 (non X) "boostet" to 3.7GHZ. Together with a GTX 1080 it runs pretty decent with my Rift!

 

A friend a mine has an octopus rift and I tried DCS 2.0 Nevada with it on my old i5 2500k PC. ASW gave it a good boost.

 

Vive doesn't have that luxury. Reprojection Async is pish. Stops judder but does nothing else.

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Only ever owned Intel CPU's since the days of 386sx. Built my first AMD system last year... Ryzen 1700 @3.8ghz, 3466mhz ram. I'm having a hard emotional struggle living with 3.8ghz overclock. My old i5 2500k was clocked at 4.8ghz. I need ALL the FPS I can get because I run VR (HTC Vive doesn't have the benefit of ASW).

 

I'm really close to buying an 8700k and ditching the Ryzen. I'd keep the DDR4 which is rated at 4ghz and overclocks to 4.4 or 4.5 on Intel (stuck at 3566 on Ryzen).

 

Ryzen does well at screen res above 1080. Ryzen+ is coming eventually but rumour is that we'll be lucky to reach 4.3 or 4.4ghz with it.

 

I do 3d rendering so that was why I chose the Ryzen... however... My 3d rendering is ALL done on GPU via octane now so...

 

My GPU is a GTX 1070 overclocked +140 core and +500 Vram.

 

For flight sims and games I only run VR. Never play in 2d now.

 

Thoughts on VR + 8700k versus Ryzen?

 

 

Before you get upset do this and you'll see where your choke is. First off ditch the VR and set your resolution at 720 or 1080p and look at your FPS. That tells you how fast your cpu is capable of processing and sending the data to the GPU because at the lower resolutions you won't be GPU limited. So if you 100fps then your CPU can handle the data needed to achieve 100FPS.

 

 

Now crank the resolution up to 4k and do the same thing (use fraps). Look at your fps then. At that resolution you'll be GPU limited. Anything lower than 100FPS means that no matter the CPU you won't really be able to get anything above that number because the GPU is already handling the info the CPU is handling at it as fast as it can.

 

 

VR is so demanding that the GPU is what's bottlenecking you. Upping the CPU just means you're going to be sending information faster to the GPU. If the GPU is already dealing with that info as fast as it can you won't see any increase.

 

 

The 1700 at your specs is a great processor and has plenty to handle what you're throwing at in VR. Your GPU is a huge bottleneck. Changing from the Ryzen system to the Intel system is going to cost you a new processor and mobo. Just sell your 1070 and up it to a 1080ti.

 

Plus the game is largely single core dependent. Again at the higher resolutions it's all about the GPU because the CPU is already sending the data faster than the GPU can crunch it. There's zero point to go with the 8700k or anything for this. I just built a system with the 7600k which at 4k test show it's like a 1fps difference. Now if you do something that needs HT and more cores, like editing, then go for it but for gaming you need to take all that cash and put it into the GPU not the CPU.


Edited by FlyingTexan
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Before you get upset do this and you'll see where your choke is. First off ditch the VR and set your resolution at 720 or 1080p and look at your FPS. That tells you how fast your cpu is capable of processing and sending the data to the GPU because at the lower resolutions you won't be GPU limited. So if you 100fps then your CPU can handle the data needed to achieve 100FPS.

 

 

Now crank the resolution up to 4k and do the same thing (use fraps). Look at your fps then. At that resolution you'll be GPU limited. Anything lower than 100FPS means that no matter the CPU you won't really be able to get anything above that number because the GPU is already handling the info the CPU is handling at it as fast as it can.

 

 

VR is so demanding that the GPU is what's bottlenecking you. Upping the CPU just means you're going to be sending information faster to the GPU. If the GPU is already dealing with that info as fast as it can you won't see any increase.

 

 

The 1700 at your specs is a great processor and has plenty to handle what you're throwing at in VR. Your GPU is a huge bottleneck. Changing from the Ryzen system to the Intel system is going to cost you a new processor and mobo. Just sell your 1070 and up it to a 1080ti.

 

Plus the game is largely single core dependent. Again at the higher resolutions it's all about the GPU because the CPU is already sending the data faster than the GPU can crunch it. There's zero point to go with the 8700k or anything for this. I just built a system with the 7600k which at 4k test show it's like a 1fps difference. Now if you do something that needs HT and more cores, like editing, then go for it but for gaming you need to take all that cash and put it into the GPU not the CPU.

 

Thanks for input!

 

So I just followed your test... VR disabled...DCS 2.5 at 1080 res. Viggen cold start training mission. In-game FPS counter shows about 120 when I'm starting up the aircraft. When I start taxiing for takeoff the FPS drops to between 90 and 84. In the air it varies between 129 and 90 with some dips down to 84.

 

GPU is overclocked +140 +500mhz.

 

Cinebench scores 1700+

 

CPU is 3815. It has gone to 9ghz but can't get it 100% stable there.

 

I couldn't try your 4k test as my monitor is 1080!

 

Since doing the test I have increased the auto fan speed profile on GPU. Don't know if any thermal throttling was taking place. I will redo the test logging GPU temp.

 

It's a shame I can't get my system stable with 3600mhz ram since game FPS increases with infinity fabric speed. The timings at 3466 are 16 16 16 33 and were optimised via a ram timing calc. After setting the timings, windows booted faster and was visibly snappier and the cinebench score is consistent at 1700. Ram timings are "optimised-safe" so there might be extra headroom if I redo the timing calc with more extreme option.

 

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Edited by grammaton_feather
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To give you an idea the GTX 1080ti has about a 40% increase over the GTX 1070 at stock speeds. As you OC that jumps even more. Also check load factors and see if any CPU cores are hitting 100% or if the GPU is maxed. Test here have shown that there was very little gain past 3.5 ghz. I'm not sure how VR really utilizes things but from what I can tell the 1070 is your limiting issue.

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To give you an idea the GTX 1080ti has about a 40% increase over the GTX 1070 at stock speeds. As you OC that jumps even more. Also check load factors and see if any CPU cores are hitting 100% or if the GPU is maxed. Test here have shown that there was very little gain past 3.5 ghz. I'm not sure how VR really utilizes things but from what I can tell the 1070 is your limiting issue.

 

 

I will log the CPU usage in 2.5 this evening. GPU usage hit 91% but average 80%. 1070 Overclocked. I guess I'm gonna have to go insane and buy a 1080ti.

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The 1080Ti by far doesnt even have enough horsepower to drive the few pixels we now have.

 

I wonder with what Über-GPU they wanna drive higher pixel count in VR.

 

My monster 2D rig is a lame duck in VR, so to say.

 

This VR makes you wanna cry for 10x the performance.

 

More pixels, more fps, more FOV, more TREES :)

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I will log the CPU usage in 2.5 this evening. GPU usage hit 91% but average 80%. 1070 Overclocked. I guess I'm gonna have to go insane and buy a 1080ti.

 

CPU usage highly depends on the airframe and mission too. A simple aircraft in an empty mission is a totally different thing than an A10-C or Ka-50 together with 40-50 others in MP with lots of stuff going on.

 

Your results may differ a lot if you make different measurements with different airframes in different scenarios. Anything else is actually also not worth doing it as we wanna know the full scope of it and not just 1 snapshot of 1 specific measurement in a sea of variables.

 

Yeah, thats 10x more work, I know.

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CPU usage highly depends on the airframe and mission too. A simple aircraft in an empty mission is a totally different thing than an A10-C or Ka-50 together with 40-50 others in MP with lots of stuff going on.

 

Your results may differ a lot if you make different measurements with different airframes in different scenarios. Anything else is actually also not worth doing it as we wanna know the full scope of it and not just 1 snapshot of 1 specific measurement in a sea of variables.

 

Yeah, thats 10x more work, I know.

 

I find the Mig 21 and A/C with lots of analog dials drag down performance compared to the modern glass cockpits.

 

I could really do with a 1080ti for 3d rendering anyway. Birthday coming early march so maybe a good excuse?

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Yes, the Mig21 is also a beast.

 

Some just stress less, some more. To my bad is prefer those that need more, like the choppers.

 

1080Ti is a drop of water on the hot VR Stone. Years need to go by for this to ripe to a standard we would describe as sufficient I guess.

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Yes, the Mig21 is also a beast.

 

Some just stress less, some more. To my bad is prefer those that need more, like the choppers.

 

1080Ti is a drop of water on the hot VR Stone. Years need to go by for this to ripe to a standard we would describe as sufficient I guess.

 

It wouldn't be so bad if we weren't running ancient code. Single core flight sims? Really? I have 8 cores and 16 threads! Or how about that grossly inefficient DX11 API? Vulkan or DX12 could release a whole lot of graphics power locked away in these GPUs.

 

And how about VRWorks for Nvidia users? Eve Valkyrie and Raw Data used to stutter at higher graphic settings on my 1070... when the respective devs added VR works I could max out those games in VR... insane level of detail on a 1070 with no frame drops. So a 1070 is technically capable of running DCS World smoothly in VR if ancient code wasn't dragging down performance. Forced to buy a 1080ti to try and compensate for ancient code. Not good.

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  • 11 months later...

I year later and I did a different, much better test just now;

 

First I reset my 8086K to stock. I ran DCS in VR testing in the A-10C quick start - hard mission. I used Oculus Tray Tool to turn off ASW. I enabled the TGP then gunned the trucks and AAA at the first waypoint in one pass. Then I killed all four vehicles at the second waypoint, also in one, very low, gun pass. All keeping an eye on the FPS the entire time. After a few of these benchmark runs I was not satisfied with my performance, rarely dipping to 40FPS, even 35FPS once with smoke, explosions, fire, gunfire, units spawning, voiceover triggers, etc at my current settings.

 

Note: Multiplayer is MUCH more demanding on the CPU than this.

 

Next I overclocked my CPU to 4.7Ghz, all cores, and ran the same test a few times. MIN 45FPS, AVERAGE 75, going up to 90FPS every now and then (again, with ASW off).

 

Finally I overclocked to 5.2Ghz and ran the same test a few times. Almost solid 90FPS, going down to 75FPS every now and then.

 

This is with an i7-8086K, 32GB DDR4@3.7Ghz, and a 1080 founders. Task manager shows one core jumping up to 75-80%, and one sticking around 40%. All others are idle.

 

*The max GPU utilization climbs with clock rate*

 

DCS does need better optimization. I would probably be getting 90FPS all the time if all my cores were utilized and it wouldn't take 4.7Ghz to feed the 1080 fast enough for it to max out.

 

2D performance does not reflect VR performance. I'm no expert but I've read that every object costs the CPU double in DCS VR. The engine doesn't just render the same object from two different angles, it creates two different objects.

 

I've read that flight sims are especially hard to multithread and I believe it. The best multithreaded flight sims are the worst flight sims (FSX, P3D) and the poorly threaded ones are the best (DCS, X-Plane 11). Hopefully someone figures it out or Vulkan does more than the experts expect it will.

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